Defining and Managing Your Brand in a Complex Marketplace

Written By Patrick Kothe
 
 
 
 

In this episode, we dive into the essentials of branding with expert Howie Chan, founder of Healthy Brand Consulting. The discussion covers the critical role of understanding and managing one's brand, both for companies and individuals. Howie shares insights from his journey from biomedical engineering to branding, offers practical advice for building and differentiating a brand, and highlights the importance of company values and leadership in navigating external events. Whether you're responsible for your company's brand or interested in personal branding, this episode provides valuable lessons on aligning brand strategy with business goals and values.

00:00 Introduction to Branding and Guest Speaker
02:28 Howie Chan's Journey from Biomedical Engineering to Branding
04:10 Field Experience and Transition to Marketing
09:06 Understanding and Managing a Brand
12:40 Brand Differentiation and Value
16:50 Challenges in Brand Management
23:00 Branding in the Medical Device Industry
31:02 Navigating Social Issues in the Marketplace
32:36 The Importance of Self-Awareness for Companies
33:37 Aligning Company Actions with Core Values
34:52 The Cost of Silence vs. Taking a Stand
35:33 Timeliness and Crisis Communication
36:56 Personal Beliefs vs. Company Beliefs
43:10 The Role of Leadership in Decision Making
48:05 Applying Company Branding Lessons to Personal Branding
53:35 Howie’s Insights on Branding and Consulting
57:12 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

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Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using an automated transcription service and is minimally edited. Please forgive the mistakes contained within it.

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[00:00:00] Pat Kothe: Welcome! Branding is something many people have an opinion on, but very few people are expert in. Every company and every one of us have a reputation, which is commonly referred to as brand. It can be of great benefit or absolutely crush us. Understanding who we are, what others think about us, and where we want to go is critical if we want our brand to work for us.

Our guest today is Howie Chan, an expert in branding and the founder and principal brand strategist at Healthy Brand Consulting. He has over two decades of experience building brands in healthcare, across biotech, Pharma, Medtech, provider, payer and digital health for startups and fortune 500 companies.

Prior to founding Healthy Brand Consulting, he was the managing director of brand strategy at Real Chemistry and contributed in marketing roles at Phillips Healthcare and Medtronic. He's also an executive coach who helps leaders with their personal brand, as well as hosts a podcast called The Healthy Brand Podcast. He's on a mission to help 1 million people live their version of legendary.

In our conversation, Howie shares his early career experiences in biomedical engineering, his realization of his strengths in marketing and branding, and how his experiences in industry shaped his expertise, the essence of branding, The importance of alignment between a company's values and its branding strategy, the significance of leadership in managing a brand, and the impact of external events on company branding.

Here's our conversation.

Howie Chan's Journey from Biomedical Engineering to Branding

[00:02:28] Pat Kothe: So Howie, I got to Ask a serious question to get this thing kicked off. How does a biomedical engineer end up becoming a branding expert?

[00:02:39] Howie Chan: That's a fantastic question. Well, I, I really follow my career journey based on curiosity. I think one of the earliest memories of getting on the journey was, I really don't know what I want to do. I don't know what I want to do when I grow up. And so for me, it was always about let's keep moving towards things that interest me, things that make me curious and move away from things that I don't like.

So I did start my career in biomedical engineering. I was actually doing a lot of lab work. I was in the lab. I was in,preclinical labs as well, doing a lot of research work, like hardcore research work.

[00:03:16] Pat Kothe: Was that something that was, your, vision? Or was this, something that you thought your parents wanted you to do? How did you come to that,that work?

[00:03:25] Howie Chan: Yeah, great question too. I always wanted to be a physician. But

[00:03:30] howie--he-his-_1_11-02-2023_110534: I

[00:03:30] Howie Chan: never get, I didn't get into med school in Singapore. I grew up in Singapore. So when I came to the U S it was doing pre med. So I was in pre med, I was doing biomedical engineering and I met this professor. He was an engineering professor and he was just a fantastic guy.

And so he took me under his wing and we just started doing experiments and turns out he was doing part time. professorship, but also working at Medtronic at the same time. So he basically just brought me in because he, we had a good working relationship and it just went from there. I just started working for them.

So it was a very natural sort of progression from, school to work.

Field Experience and Transition to Marketing

[00:04:10] Pat Kothe: So at some point in time you thought, geez,there's another world out there, outside of the lab. What was that all about?

[00:04:18] Howie Chan: I really real, I realized that man, I can do this work, but I don't think I can be really great at it. I don't think I can come up with a cure for something or get published in a ton of papers. It was just, I didn't feel that spark, you know, Pat. So what happened was I wanted to just see how this all works out in the field.

So how does it work? How do all these brilliant technologies get sold, get talked about, get used? So I landed a job working in the field. And I think a lot of your listeners can probably... surmise field experience in the medtech world. It's always great. It's great to have experience in the field because you really understand what happens when the rubber meets the road.

You can see a ton of things, you can try and design a lot of products, but how does it get used? So I did that for a couple years, and then naturally took that... experience back in house. truthfully it was getting dangerous. I was driving so much. Pat, this was the days before Bluetooth Before Google Maps.

I had this like huge brick palm trio thing I was trying to you know mess with get on phone calls, you know those days It wasn't as sexy and slick and I found myself just driving so much I covered for sales territory and some days I was driving five hours just to have a half an hour chat with the doc.

So at some point I was like, I think I'm going to get into trouble here. as I'm driving so much. So I started working in the marketing world and that just kind of broke open this whole world for me, looking at product marketing, introducing products into the market, but the game changer, we realized that my path forward was getting into brand was actually working on the agency side.

So after a decade.on the industry side, I worked, another decade on the agency side, and that's where it, if I found love with the world of brand. So it's really trying to launch companies. I was working on all sorts of different problems, but essentially all across healthcare. talking about medtech to digital health, to providers, to payers, pharma companies, biotechs.

At various stages in their journey, right? So whether it's launching for an IPO, whether it's preparing to get acquired, whether it's repositioning a huge fortune 100 brand. So I've done so many things, but one thing for sure is it's so much quicker. And so much faster turn than being in the company itself.

As it takes a long time to launch a product. So as a product marketer waiting for something to launch, dude, that takes a while.

[00:07:02] Pat Kothe: Yeah.

[00:07:03] Howie Chan: So I realized and recognized, I probably have some ADHD going on, Pat. So managing a bunch of projects at the same time was really my sweet spot. And I fell in love with it instantly.

[00:07:17] Pat Kothe: So with, your experience at Medtronic, you're managing products. Were you kind of project, product manager, you get upstream and downstream stuff, so you've got field support as well as product development.

[00:07:29] Howie Chan: Yeah, I was lucky enough to have my toes dipped in all, both sides of the house. both upstream and downstream. That was really fun, right? So, crafting and trying to figure out how to launch something to, it's already launched now, let's gopush and get more traction in the market.

So, I was responsible for both, for two different product lines. that was great. It was a fantastic experience

[00:07:52] Pat Kothe: Were you exposed to branding at that point? there's the company brand, the Medtronic brand, and then there's product brands and what division you're in and branding from that standpoint, how involved were you with branding in your experience at Medtronic?

[00:08:05] Howie Chan: Yeah, that's a great question because it breaks into this whole conversation about what is branding and what is brand, right, Pat? So, my experience now, yeah, I was absolutely in it. I was in it without knowing I was in it. I was putting, pulling together the messages, trying to figure out what the customers wanted.

Applying the master brand for my, I was doing the things, but I didn't realize I was doing the things. So only after I became a brand strategist and seeing how you actually launch something from the ground up, then you realize, whoa, it is all of it. It's all of it. it's how your customers interact with their salespeople.

It's how they get their brochures or step into the booth. It's how you follow up with your CRM emails. It's how you bring them into the mothership and lead them through different sort of innovation booths or product,demos. it's really everything. So I was doing it without recognizing I was already part of the sort of brand experience effort.

Understanding and Managing a Brand

[00:09:06] Pat Kothe: let's start at the, at that top level and what exactly is branding? it's a term that people throw out all the time. But from an expert standpoint, what is brand? What's the importance of brand?

[00:09:19] Howie Chan: Yeah, so I always tell people there are two things. So what is a brand? A brand is a feeling. And a brand is actually a decision making shortcut. So why do you choose something? Why do you behave a certain way? All that is a brand, right? So for example, the brand of, let's say, you, is also your reputation.

What do people say about you, Pat, when you're not in a room, when you're not there, when your name is brought up? Just like a Medtronic, just like a Nike. What do people feel about that? Whether it's a sentiment. Branding is basically all the activities, everything, to design an experience so that feeling happens.

That's it.

[00:10:03] Pat Kothe: And where does that, and where does that feeling happen?

[00:10:07] Howie Chan: It happens in the mind of the customer, in the consumer, in the audience. So really, you have no say. And a lot of times, if you're interacting with people, you're leaving an impression. They have it in their minds. It's their perception of you. So you can't never say, Ah, that's not my brand.

My brand is this. No. You don't decide that. The people that look at you, the people that interact with you decide that.

[00:10:30] Pat Kothe: What's interesting, too, is that, even though you don't have a branding expert or you don't have a brand plan, inside your company, you've got a brand. your brand is out there. you may not be managing it, you may not understand what it is, but you've got a brand out there.

[00:10:46] Howie Chan: Yes, 100%. I tell folks this too, unless you are three people in a garage where you've got everything you need and you don't need customers, you're pre commercial, you're not interacting with anybody, you have a brand and you need it. As long as you're interacting with someone, even if it's an investor and not a customer, you're building brand, because you're interacting, you're leaving impressions, whether you like it or not, they can hate you, they can love you.

The worst is, is if they have no, they don't care about you, if they're neutral about you. That's the worst, right? There's no feeling about you.

[00:11:23] Pat Kothe: let's talk about managing a brand. So now we know what, what that brand is, that, that feeling, that, that ability to, have somebody take action when you're not there. How do you actively manage a brand?

[00:11:38] Howie Chan: Yeah, and then, and I think, when you talk about managing a brand, first you gotta have the foundation of the brand to manage. So a lot of companies start managing things, but... What is the foundation? What is the core? What do you believe in? Why are you here? Why do you exist? What's your mission? So I'm not even just talking about a mission statement.

Many companies can have statements. But really understand who do you serve? Why you exist? What's the secret sauce of what you bring to the table? The value, right? Value gets thrown around so much in the Metech world. what's your value? What are you providing value? So what is it? And how is it different from what's already out there?

I think oftentimes Companies forget that when you align all of those things, the inside, the outside, the value, how you show up, your persona, your tone of voice, that creates a strong brand foundation for you to manage.

[00:12:34] Pat Kothe: You mentioned, value as being, something that's thrown around and everybody talks about that.

Brand Differentiation and Value

[00:12:40] Pat Kothe: How do you, let's talk about brand differentiation for a second. Because if everybody says, we provide. value to our customers. We're, we're focused on the patient.

we,provide solutions to clinical problems. If everybody's saying that, and no one's differentiated, it's a zero sum game. nobody's benefiting,by doing that. So how do you, how do you come up with a differentiated brand that's, makes a difference in, in your customer's mind?

[00:13:11] Howie Chan: Yeah, I think first you gotta, you gotta have something that actually does give value. Brand can't solve for that. You gotta have a product that does something different or better. Starts with that, right? And then once you have that, then it's really having the audacity to look into what is clearly the most, impactful thing you can deliver.

Because I always talk about... You can deliver vitamins or you can deliver painkillers. Guess what? Painkillers sell. Painkillers do something immediate. It helps you relieve your pain. Vitamins? Ah, I take it today, I take it tomorrow, I miss a day here. It's okay. It's fine. So it really starts from the people you're serving.

So whether it's, again, in today's environment, you got to look at the hospital system, you need to look at payers, obviously, the users, the decision makers, across all of your stakeholders, what pain are you solving for the most influential decision maker? That's it. You start from there. What is that pain?

And once you understand that, Then you can come up with something that's different. Then you can actually say something that's unique, that's specific. Nobody wants to hear you talk about value and innovation anymore. Show me. Show me. How are you delivering value? How are you being innovative? It's like a comedian saying, I'm so funny.

Come see my show. Nah, you show people that you're funny. You don't say that you're funny.

[00:14:38] Pat Kothe: So you talk about your experience at Medtronic. There was somebody that was managing the master brand at Medtronic, but you were a cog in the wheel and you didn't know. You didn't understand that you had a piece of that brand strategy. And you didn't even know.

[00:14:57] Howie Chan: Yeah,

[00:14:58] Pat Kothe: so how does that happen within companies?

how do you make it vertically integrated in your company that people understand what the brand is and help to reinforce and build on that, that brand story?

[00:15:11] Howie Chan: Yeah, I think What's amazing about it is, even though I didn't know it, I was already living it. when I say brand, a brand is the experience of what you have. And it always starts from the inside. So in Medtronic's,kudos to them. They have a very good... Onboarding and cultural, experience as you join a company.

So I think even now, if you, when you join a company, and back then when Earl Baken, the founder was alive, you would attend every single new employee, induction ceremony, and you were given a medal, an artifact of the words he wrote down 50 years ago when he founded a company to alleviate pain and extend life.

And that was just a part of everybody's...norm. So you feel like you're inducted into a tribe that's really caring for humanity and caring for health. And it was real. You felt real and you were in it without even knowing you were in it. So I think the best brands do that. They attract the people and then they put in place the foundations for you to feel, for you to be able to act, for you to behave the way that the brands want to be seen in the world.

[00:16:30] Pat Kothe: Sometimes we come into a company where there's a healthy brand, like a Medtronic toward Man's Full Life. the Vitruvian man, the branding in Medtronic is strong and long. And sometimes we come into a company and we may have a negative brand image.

[00:16:48] Howie Chan: that's out there.

Challenges in Brand Management

[00:16:50] Pat Kothe: So tell me a little bit about, that type of a situation where you're coming in and maybe you don't know what the brand is and maybe you know, or you suspect, and it's not exactly what you want it to be.

[00:17:05] Howie Chan: it all starts with leadership. It all starts from the top. So I can't help a company if the top of the pyramid doesn't want to change. I can't do that. I can't make you feel like brand matters to you. But if you feel like brand matters, I can help you change it. So it always starts from the top. There are definitely situations where, when you audit a brand, you feel like you're A, but then it turns out you're Z, right?

And when that happens, it's going through the process. So if you start mapping out the entire journey of whatever audience set believes you're trying to change, so for example, there's customers. What's going on with the customer? Like, how, what is their journey today? From the moment they see something online, or hear something, or read something about you guys in a journal, all the way to the touch point of a sales meeting, or even to the way that they use your products, or even how products are being contracted at a hospital, how you're able to take it out of packaging, go through every single detail of that journey and then you start analyzing what are the fall downs, what are the emotional disconnects, what are the areas that's confusing, what are the negative points, and then see if it lines up to your house or not, your foundation or not.

And, often times, Pat... The foundation is not there, or the foundation also needs to change. Perhaps the company has changed, or perhaps the landscape has changed, but the story hasn't changed. So once you start lining up the foundation to the journey, you start recognizing where the areas that you need to improve, and that gets into the tactical bits of, all right, now what do we need to do?

Is it training? Is it new materials? What do we need to do?

[00:18:44] Pat Kothe: The companies make choices on their branding based on the bets that they want to make. Let me explain that a second. The most important customer for a company, let's say, they've got a surgeon preference item and they want to own the customer's mind that we have. quality products that solve a, solve a particular,problem that they're having, that we're an innovative company that we, quickly come up with new devices that we're supplying a steady stream of things that helps.

So that, that's what the, the, what the feeling that they want to have with that customer, but then on the supply chain side, we're holding price. we're not going to be, playing in the price game like other people will. In that customers mind supply chain, customer, they may think,this company is not willing to play ball there.

they're not, not very,not very good in terms of being a good corporate partner with us, but it's a choice. that the company is making. So how do you balance out your brand when you've got a multi headed customer out there and it may be a positive on one side and a negative on another.

[00:20:02] Howie Chan: Yeah, that's a, I think that's a great, that's a great question, Pat. and I think every MetTech company faces this, right? There's multi headed, everybody has different needs. I think what's important is, again, is alignment. How do you point all the messages for all the different stakeholders back to one thing?

What do you stand for? What, in the end, do you stand for? If, in the end, you stand for we're a company that's let's say, seeking to make some procedure better, faster, whatever it is, but you acknowledge that it's just not for everybody, then it's a decision that you're making. But you can never say, hey, we want to help everyone, but then we're never willing to budge on price.

Or we're never willing to budge anything. Nothing. We're budging on nothing. So I think it's, you just have to be aligned. it just be a line. And for me, for a brand and marketing person, price is like, it's like World War III. it's not about the price.

It's a, it comes back to this idea if we're talking about prices, that means they don't see, back to the word value, they don't see it. They don't feel like it does anything for them. And maybe those are not your right customers. They're not for you. go somewhere else.

[00:21:17] Pat Kothe: There are some companies that are good at developing, managing their brand. There's some that aren't. What separates the two?

[00:21:31] Howie Chan: I think it's case by case basis, right? But I think the key thing is, do you even understand or know that brand is a factor?I think once if you have someone that goes in with their eyes opened Pat, they should be able to manage it. Again, when you think about like startup companies and I work with startups a lot We're not talking about tremendous amount of investment right off the bat.

It's not about that. It's about the intent. So if your eyes are open and you say, Hey, I want to develop a great brand. How do we start? Crawl, walk, run, just like anything. You don't, swing. You don't swing for the fences at day one. No, you go for your foundation. You don't need to spend so much, but just be mindful intent, you know have intention when you start these things out what you often see Pat those that don't manage it it's like, all right, we're gonna create this brand here. We're gonna launch this thing there. We're gonna develop these messages here We're gonna do that and then you end up with what I love to call brand palooza You have five different names all pointing at different directions the company's this thing you're saying that and then depending on the flavor of the month we're gonna just talk about things that is on trend, but they all point in different directions, right?

And then that's where disaster hits the fan. That's what you do, that audit, and it comes back. Wait, I thought we were known for this. Nah, you're actually known for nothing, because you're trying to stand for everything.

[00:22:54] Pat Kothe: So you've had the opportunity to manage brands and do branding.

Branding in the Medical Device Industry

[00:23:00] Pat Kothe: Inside the medical device industry and outside of the medical device industry. And every industry likes to think that they're unique and they're different. Is medical device different?

[00:23:12] Howie Chan: I think there are certain aspects of it that is different, but in the end, we're selling to humans, like we're talking to humans. We're trying to influence human behavior. So the tenets of human behavior are still the same.but obviously there are differences, right? So, one of the key things, just if you talk about healthcare versus not, and we can get into MedDevice.

it drives me crazy whenever a healthcare company comes to me and say, Hey, look what it did with this other agency. And it comes back with, we're here to transform lives, drive patient outcomes, customers are at our core. Oh my God, we're so proud of that. It's so great. And then you're like, everybody says that, what did they do?

It is not a revelation. It doesn't even point to why you're different or something that's distinct. that's healthcare. And then when you get to the, med device, what's different about med device and what I love about med device is that there is technology involved, and there's such an opportunity. for medtech brands, especially if it's for, let's say, chronic diseases where actually patients use those devices, if you think about like diabetic or glucose monitors or pumps, drug pumps and things like that, you get into the realm of almost consumer health and there's an opportunity to develop a relationship and a brand with the patient themselves.

Not just the physicians, not just the users. So I think for medtech, there's a lot of different components and that's why, it's a passion of mine. That's why it is different because there's a lot of opportunity for you to align all these different bits and pieces to create something strong and powerful.

Let's talk about nesting of brands for a second because this is something that's a little bit... It can be a little bit tricky. So you've got a large multinational company and they've got many different divisions underneath them. And some may be very innovative and some may be, 50 year old technology that, there's still, trotting out there and it's still a value, but it's, it's old technology.

[00:25:16] Pat Kothe: And then you've got, again, the division that's on the cutting edge. And then, so you've got all of these different things. And. The view of the customer may be different about your company depending on which which, um, technology that they're involved with. somebody is using the 50 year old one and that's your customer and they see your brand message being something different than what they're used to do it.

So how do you deal with these large companies where you've got things nested underneath them and then you've got an overarching theme that may or may not be pinpoint to the customer who's using your product.

[00:26:00] Howie Chan: For me brands are always changing. They're always in progress, right? If it's over, it means, the company has shut. It's done. So a brand is a story that continues to be told. So when you think about that and you think about a brand as a story, not every character in a story is the protagonist.

There are sub characters, there are very small characters, there are different parts to play. So if you think about a portfolio as different characters in the story, like any great story, you hone in on the ones that are going to make a difference, that are key players in that story. For me, it's talking about power brands, right?

These are the power divisions or power products that really are the flagship of the mothership. And you place a lot of emphasis on those. Are there these sub players or small parts? Yeah, but you're not going to spend so much time on them. So there's always going to be this journey where you have customers interacting with brands that are the small players, those that don't have the protagonist parts.

But that's okay. I think as long as everything sort of points to that main idea, main thesis for the brand. it's okay. And sometimes it's in transition. So take, for example, I was working with a company. They just got bought by Amgen, the're Horizon Therapeutics. I worked with them when they were rebranding.

So what happened there was a lot of their portfolio products were about primary care. So these are primary care drugs. But they wanted to move into the world of rare diseases. So while most of their revenue was generated by primary care drugs, they're going to place their bets in rare disease drugs. So the transition point was if I was a physician, a hospital system, a payer that's interacting with Horizon Therapeutics at that precise moment of transition and change and you say, Hey, we're all about rare disease. I might be like, wait a minute. Most of your portfolio is primary care, but that's okay. Because you start to paint a picture and a vision for it. This is where we want to go. This is how we're going to place our bets. And we, and this is how it aligns with the purpose of our company.

So within a two, three, four, five year period, they continue to be good on their promises to deliver on that purpose, it's okay. It's fine. Because again, a brand is not done. A brand is a story continued to be told.

[00:28:42] Pat Kothe: that's a great example. There are other examples where people put an aspirational thing out there, and this is who we're going to be, and new management comes in and it's not what we're going to be. And then you have a misstep, there and causing confusion in the, into the marketplace.

So if you are going to have an aspirational one, you better make sure that you're going to execute on it. Otherwise you're playing with your brand.

[00:29:10] Howie Chan: No, 100%. And the other thing too, Pat, some companies aim too high. Some companies aim too high. So I say there's a Goldilocks zone here in terms of like your aspirations. It's below the role of your brand. So understand what is the role of your brand. Every medtech company wants to cure the world or save every single patient.

But guess what? You are not the physician. You're not treating patients. You're enabling. You're a technology. there is a role for you to be played. So understand what that role is. Always stay beneath that. But then at the bottom boundary is... It has to have importance. It has to have some impact. It has to have some aspirational qualities to it.

It can't be so low that, Oh yeah, we're here to make widgets to, decrease the surgery time. okay, that's great, but it's not very aspirational. So let's bump it up a little bit. So in between there, that's your Goldilocks zone.

[00:30:07] Pat Kothe: That's a, that's really a great point. And also it gives you a little bit of wiggle room too, in case you over, do your expectations. You can sneak it up a little bit. If you underperform, you can sneak it down a little bit. You don't look like an idiot for being too high or too low.

[00:30:26] Howie Chan: Yeah, and I think to your point, Pat, in the end, you gotta commit to it. You gotta deliver on it. You gotta commit. You may never get there, but you gotta show you're moving towards that. you gotta show that you're edging towards what you're aspiring to be.

[00:30:41] Pat Kothe: Things have, have changed, how companies are behaving in the marketplace and behaving socially, just, over, over the past, past decade or so. It used to be, companies were going, we're going to stick to what we do and we're going to talk messaging about what we do and we're not going to weigh in on politics.

Navigating Social Issues in the Marketplace

[00:31:02] Pat Kothe: We're not going to weigh in on social issues. We're just going to stay in our lane. Things have changed and it's causing some issues out, out in the marketplace. Bud Light gets hammered for something that they did on the social side. Other companies, get praised for what they do by one group of people and then reviled by, by the other group of, group of people.

We've got lightning rods in here, and we're a divided, a divided world, a divided marketplace. But there are some expectations that people have of what a company should do when they, when something big happens. How should companies view some of these issues? What's the best strategy that they can employ when you've got a major issue that happens out there? And. The expectation is they're going to weigh in with saying something.

[00:31:58] Howie Chan: Yeah. that's such a good question, Pat, and it's such a, it's such an important conversation, right? in today's world, like you said, there are things that come and go. There are big lightning rod events. I'm in Minneapolis, right? when the George Floyd event happened, a lot of issues, a lot of blowback, a lot of need for companies to act.

So I take a page from sort of personal development because I feel like leadership, personal development, and brands are all tied in the same,in the same vein. S

The Importance of Self-Awareness for Companies

[00:32:36] Howie Chan: o when you're faced with a personal challenge, when you're faced with something personal, how do you decide to act one way versus another?

First you got to know yourself. You got to have some self awareness because in the end, we need to act congruently with our beliefs and who we are. And when we don't do that, bad things happen. As a person, you don't feel good about yourself, you're maybe your mental health starts to decline, but as a company, you start to get, like you said, these, what it's... mass exodus of employees or customers, ditching your brand. So I think you have to understand, first of all, who you are as a company. So what I mean very concretely is what are the beliefs that you hold true? What are the values that you say you abide by? How do you live? How do you survive? What, why do you exist?

All that thing, all the things that we talked about foundations for a brand, that's going to help you decide, do I engage? Do I not?

Aligning Company Actions with Core Values

[00:33:37] Howie Chan: So if the culture of the company is such that, we really care about our people are so important and you say that left and right, you put it all over your HR, page, you gotta act accordingly.

So if things like that happen, you have to immediately talk to your employees. What's happening? What do we think? What's our stance? And then from an outside perspective, you work with them to figure out what do we want to talk about outside of the confines of the company? Is it going to impact our customers?

Does it make sense to do that? If we lose this part of our customers because we make a stand, is that okay? You first got to understand that, and then you make decisions. I think what gets companies into trouble... is they think they're a certain way and they just view it as like a marketing campaign like Bud Light for example.

What do they stand for as a company and brand? Sure, they have been supportingthese groups for a while but very differently. It's not a public national campaign of support. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, you just have to understand who you are, what you stand for and the consequences of saying or not saying something and then you do it.

The Cost of Silence vs. Taking a Stand

[00:34:52] Pat Kothe: The easiest thing to do sometimes is not to say anything. And that's been the case for a lot of companies for a lot of years. But there's cost to that too. And that cost, as you said, are you gonna, are you going to look bad in your employees? Hey, you're not standing up for me. I'm this type of person.

This is important to me. stand up for me. or it could be in your customers, what your customer says, but recognizing that there's going to be a cost to it is also something that we have to weigh when we make these decisions. So sometimes, silence, has a cost to it. But taking a stand has a cost to it as well.

Timeliness and Crisis Communication

[00:35:33] Pat Kothe: I like your idea of going in and talking to your employees and exploring those things, but there's a time pressure on some of these things too, because you don't want to be, a month later after you've done all of your internal stuff, come out and say, here's my statement on George Floyd or, pick the, uh, uh, the topic.

You have to be somewhat timely as well, which kind of is hard when you're trying to get feedback from your employees too.

[00:35:59] Howie Chan: no doubt. No doubt. And that's why, there, there are people that do a lot of these things. that's their jobs for crisis communications, for example. They have plans in place, right? having a process, having done scenarios like you gotta do all this stuff and prep.

You gotta make your friends before, bad things happen. All this should be done already, right? So, understanding where the nation's gonna go, all these different things that could pop up, understanding these scenarios and plan for them, and what you're gonna say, if you're gonna say something, should already be there.

By taking a stand, it really comes back to alignment. Because if it aligns with your purpose... You will feel that you're compelled to do something. Because if you don't, like you say, if you keep quiet, you're not actually delivering on what you say you are, or who you say you are.

[00:36:47] Pat Kothe: When we look at things from a company standpoint, we can make, make those decisions on what the company press release is going to be and how the company is going to do things.

Personal Beliefs vs. Company Beliefs

[00:36:56] Pat Kothe: But companies are made up of people and leaders at, at companies, have their own personal beliefs, which may or may not be completely aligned with the company line, how do you talk to companies and CEOs, CFOs, c-suite people, anybody in that company that is gonna take a stand on a particular issue? How do you talk to a company about aligning or not aligning people's personal opinions versus the company's opinion?

[00:37:37] Howie Chan: Again, first and foremost, it comes back to self awareness, right? It comes back to, you being aligned with who you are as a leader.

So what are your personal beliefs and what are the company's beliefs? in the end, if a company is doing a great job, they're actually explicitly stating who we are and who we are not. And if you are a leader that has beliefs that are actually very different, you ought, you shouldn't work there.

If not, it's going to be a very painful journey for you. It's just being honest, right? You shouldn't work at a place where you don't align with. Because if not, you're just you have to lie to yourself every single day. And nobody wants that. So that's number one. And then the second thing is, depending on what you need to say and what you want to say, guess what? You are an employee of the company. You should never denigrate the industry. You should never say anything bad about your company because you are actually an ambassador, right? You're a leader at the company. You're an ambassador for the company. So if you were to say anything, it should go along the lines of what the company's beliefs are.

You should. And then, again, you should never get to a point where you are pissing off customers, that's using your company's products today, because that's not your job. In the end, it's a job. And if you don't like it, you can change your job, and you can quit your job, and you can say whatever you want.

I think there is a mutual responsibility, the company towards you, and you towards the company.

[00:38:59] Pat Kothe: It's a really hard thing, Howie. It is. And I'll push back on you here because, we've got issues that are split 50 50,within our country. and if the company takes a stance, that means that 50 percent of the people don't agree with it. Or if they take no stance and, an employee takes a stance on social media they're going to tick off 50, 50 percent of the population that's out there and that leads into your brand. If you say something, I support this cause, that cause, 50 percent don't, it will affect your brand. and we are so out there with our opinions.And so many people are weighing in on things that they may or may not have informed opinions on, but it's just what our society is doing.

And the company brand may pay the price for the individual decisions that are being made by it, by somebody. and they may think that they're in total alignment with everybody in the company, but they may not be.

[00:40:09] Howie Chan: It is tricky. It is tricky, isn't it? again, in today's world, everybody is, is part of the media. Everybody can't be a mouthpiece, right? I think in the end, you talk about how do you manage your brand, you have to have that alignment. You have to be able to explicitly state who you are as a company.

You just have to. just... tactical example, someone that works, for Nike versus someone that works for Hyatt. Which individual do you feel like they know whether they align with their company values and brand or not, right? I have no clue what the Hyatt brand is. I have no clue, don't understand what their beliefs are.

But if you work for Nike, you're pretty sure what their beliefs are, because they put their money where their mouth is. They say, this is who we are, this is what we're for, and then that's it. But even Nike don't, they don't take every stand on every issue, like you said. So it has to be an issue that violates, that comes into close proximity of your values as a brand. Again, we don't know what they do internally, so I would reckon because they care about their people, they probably talk about this internally, but as an outward communication, you don't have to tackle everything, neither should you, because some of those have nothing to do with your brand.

You also find companies that want to tackle everything, but dude, you're not a non profit that's trying to, save the world. You're a company in the end. So again, it really depends on what is your role. How can you be more explicit so that your employees that work for you know what you stand for?

And that's the best you can do, Pat. And, there's no right or wrong, too. This is also a journey. You can mess up one day, and then you say, I'm sorry, I messed up, And then you move on. We are all learning how to be better citizens in this new world. And I think it's okay to admit that it is a journey.

And sometimes, you can't be 100 percent perfect every single day.

[00:42:14] Pat Kothe: As you were describing that master brand, that the top umbrella of who you are, and really understanding and thinking through what do you stand for? What do you want to stand for? Then it makes these decisions easier. If you don't have that clarity. If you've not gone through and had full clarity on what that is, that's what makes these decisions much more tricky because you have, you have not, you've not come to terms in your own mind with who you are.

And now every decision that every new thing that pops up, you've got to rethink and. Does it fit? Doesn't, does it not fit? It becomes much more problematic as opposed to I know who I am. Now let me, let me make decisions based on that truth.

The Role of Leadership in Decision Making

[00:43:10] Howie Chan: You probably face this all the time as a CEO of a company. Like any leader, right? Whether it's a CEO, whether it's a sports team leader, whether it's a president of a country, you're going to be faced with very hard decisions. And in the end, if you know yourself, you know your values, you know what you stand for, you're going to be able to make these decisions.

Because again, a hard decision is just hard. It is just, it just is. There's no simple thing, whether you choose this path or that the strong leaders are able to pick a path, not because they know it'll turn out well, but they know that it's aligned to who they are. That's it.

[00:43:47] Pat Kothe: I'll give you a, an example. We're talking on a podcast. I've got,podcasts, talk to a lot of different people. I'm also CEO of a company. Covid Hits. We've got an issue with vaccinations, I'm CEO of a company and our customers are emergency department physicians and clinicians in the emergency department. Guess what? I want to protect the, protect my customers. that's who I'm, most, interested in is aligning with their needs and how we can support them. People not getting vaccinated doesn't support them because they walk into the ED and they pass this on. This is the height of the thing.

And I also know that, there are a large percentage of the country that does not support vaccines. Now to some of the listeners out there, if you don't support vaccines and you're part of the medical device community, I question your commitment to science. Okay. I probably just lost some listeners right there.

Okay. I probably just did. It's a decision that I'll make today because that's how I feelas an individual. And I also feel that, we've got, a commitment to our fellow human beings and public health to not pass these things on. So that's a personal decision that I'm making as a CEO of a company to come out and say this.

So I could lose some listeners off a podcast. Who cares? Is it going to affect my business? That's another decision that, that I've got to put in when I'm having, uh, you know, put it, putting this information out there.

[00:45:32] Howie Chan: It's absolutely true, right? So I think making a stand, you should feel the compulsion to do that. Just like what you just talked about, right? I can feel the energy and I can feel the intensity because it's a must do. It's not like, ah, you know, maybe we don't act on this. Maybe we don't say anything.

No, this is something that you stand for. This is something you believe in. You have to do it. It's a must do. So protecting your customer, it's a must do. Vaccination, it's a must do because this is what we believe in. This is who we are. And, I always say this too, like companies need to lift their values at the darkest times.

Not just at the brightest spots. Values are not just written on the walls for fun.It has to be lived in the darkest of times, which means sacrifice. That's values. You have to be willing to lose something. Because if not, it's not valuable. That's the definition of the word. So you hit it right on the head.

[00:46:34] Pat Kothe: Great way of looking at it. I love, I love that, that saying, I love that analogy. Character is revealed in difficult times. Our messaging can be revealed in difficult times. How we come out to the world with our beliefs and our values happens when we're in difficult times. Thanks for bringing that up.

That was really a good way to view that.

[00:47:04] Howie Chan: Yeah, I mean, it always reminds me of, I think people talk about this all the time with Nike's ad with Colin Kaepernick, right? So in his book, Shoe Dog, Phil Knight always talks about the moment where they brought him this idea where, Hey, we need to do something and we need to work with Colin because he's been standing up for something, right? So the idea is, believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything. And Phil Knight said, we must do this. This is something we have to do, even though it's going to piss, probably piss a lot of people off that we're taking a stand, but we have to do, it's a must. And guess what, right?

Tons of people burned their shoes. If you remember, like people were going crazy. But those that love them bought more shoes. Those that love them said that is exactly who we are. You're exactly right. We've been with you this whole time and the people that love them more.

[00:47:59] Pat Kothe: There are lessons that we learn in one part of our life that we can apply to other parts of our life. So you're a branding expert. Y

Applying Company Branding Lessons to Personal Branding

[00:48:05] Pat Kothe: ou deal with company brands, but we all have individual brands as well. we're all, and we talk about it, the company reputation or the personal reputation, just, switch out the word brand and, you know, it's, it's reputation.

So how can we apply some of the lessons that you've learned in company branding to our own individual branding and our own individual reputations?

[00:48:28] Howie Chan: Thanks for the tee up. I'm actually coaching folks now one on one on individual brands, personal brands and you're absolutely spot on. I think reputation is a good way to think about it. Sometimes people don't like to see themselves as a brand because they're like, I'm not a product, I'm not up for sale.

No, you're not for sale. But when people hear your name, what do you want people to think about you, right? Are you a tireless worker or are you someone that slack off? are you someone that I want to work with because you bring joy into our work? Are you a curmudgeon that nobody wants to touch with a 10 foot pole?

Who are you? So I think, just like what we talked about for companies, I think for individuals, clarity is important. What do you value? What do you really care about? So when I work with, my individual clients, it's really about, again, aligning all of these things. Because we're all a product of our environment.

We're a product of how we grew up. We're a product of how our parents taught us, the teachers that we've had, the careers that we've led. How do all these things line up? what in the end is your secret sauce? What do you bring to the world? What value do you deliver to those around you? And it starts from that.

A lot of that is internal work, Pat. So again, I don't do this with everybody becausethere are people that are more self aware than others, and some aren't even willing to open that box to look inside. If you are willing to look inside, I would say that, like, start writing down what do you stand for, who are you, and why are you here, why do you exist, and then really craft out something about your superpower, right?

What is that spark that you uniquely bring to the world? And I think once you understand it, the rest is almost tactical. Pat,when you show up for work, when you show up in an interview, what would you say? What are the things? What are the stories that show and showcase that personality and that truth and that superpower and value?

So start from there.

[00:50:36] Pat Kothe: And as we talked about earlier, you already have a brand. You already have a reputation. You may not know what it is. You may have to do a brand audit. You may have to do that 360,or 270, assessment to know what people think of you, because only then can you attack and change and rebrand or work on your, your reputation 'cause that's a difficult, you know, it's, you're creating a brand is is one thing. Managing a brand or rebranding, it's a different animal.

[00:51:10] Howie Chan: Yeah. And you bring up something so, so important and what I've seen too. I think you talked about, what makes successful companies successful and what makes not successful companies fail. I think just like individuals. The ones that are successful, and can manage brands well, or even manage themselves as a brand well, are those that's willing to look in a mirror and be okay with what they see.

It's okay. Look in the black box. Do that audit. Bring up the mirror. If it doesn't look like what you want it to look like, good. Time to change. If it looks like exactly what you think it's going to look like, fantastic. Keep doing what you're doing. In any case, there's, there's no bad blood. You can change if you need to. You don't have to change if you don't want to, but be okay with what in the mirror. A lot of times people get so freaked out, they don't even want to see the mirror. They don't even want to do an audit. They say, I know everything. I know it all. I know exactly what my customers think of me.

Or, they say, no, whatever you brought back in the mirror? Nah, that's not true. Alright, I don't want to talk about this anymore. See ya! To your own detriment.

[00:52:14] Pat Kothe: If you're on a desert island and it's just you. Who cares what anybody else thinks? It's what you think. it's, that's the only thing that matters. None of us live on a desert Island. So we're all trying to do something. We're all trying to influence, other people. We're all trying to move our own, uh, self ahead in this world.

And we have to do it with other people in mind. And we have to understand how are we really being viewed? And as you said, are we the curmudgeon? Are we the, the Debbie Downer? Are we, somebody who brings joy into the room when you walk into the room? That's going to help to build whatever you're trying to do.

That, that reputation that, that exists within that person's mind of you when you're not thereis gonna, lead to how effective you're going to be.

[00:53:05] Howie Chan: Yeah. And I think the last part about that is, you gotta then be able to craft that story, right? We talked about earlier on, a brand is a story. You gotta be able to craft... that story, so as a person, what is your story? What is a story that you can tell, whether it's a professional one, a personal one, that people listen to and be like, Yeah, I understand you now. I get you. I get you. Just like a company tells their story. What is their story? Be very intentional of crafting that and then, repeat it again and again.

Howie’s Insights on Branding and Consulting

[00:53:35] Pat Kothe: Howie, you've got a couple of things that, that you're doing right now. You've got a podcast called Healthy Brand, contains some great information on branding, not only within medical device, but from other areas as well.

And you've got, you've got, uh, your own consulting group that helps with branding. Talk to me a little bit about the podcast, a little bit about your company and how you help customers.

[00:54:01] Howie Chan: Healthy Brand Consulting is, is my consulting group. So what we do is we work with companies, again, large, small, doesn't really matter. They're usually at a point of inflection. So when there's misalignment, when the outside doesn't match the inside, how do we help them align these things?

So sometimes it's a tweak in strategy, a new narrative, and you're done. Sometimes it's, all right, how do we refresh? Look and feel. How do we develop a campaign? But it's all towards a business goal, right? For me, it's all about what's your goal as a business and let's help you get there. the podcast is really a passion project, Pat.

I think like you, when I started the podcast, I wanted to have something where I can meet people, talk to really smart and interesting folks that lives at the intersection of health and brand.And a lot of times I might lean on one side versus the other. Like I've got founders, that really have found this sort of healthcare companies that I'd like to get their take on what brand is for them.

Or I talked to brand strategists that have worked with the largest brands in the world and get their take. On what branding and health care means for them. So for me, it's really at the intersection. and I have been having a lot of fun talking to folks and learning about them. and then what I also do is I've started to do individual coaching as well.

It all started from people asking me for how, Hey, do you work with people? Cause I'm very active on LinkedIn. And that has been, again, something that I've, I love doing, helping people out individually. So I'm doing that too.

[00:55:31] Pat Kothe: So, Howie, thanks so much for, leading us through this, uh, very interesting discussion on company branding, personal branding, and how, you know, we get into our customer's mind and, and how we're viewed within our customer's mind. I'm thinking about, somebody who's,in a company and they're now responsible for branding.

Either they got the light and said, geez, we don't, we need to have somebody responsible for branding. or, they're a new company and they're thinking about, how do they want to be perceived in the customer's mind? What are a few of the things that they should be doing first?

[00:56:07] Howie Chan: Yeah, I think first, first step is, What do you, what have you got? What's the current state? What's the current state? So have you got documents? Have you have anything written down? What's explicitly

said about your company? Again, the foundational pieces, right? What do you believe in? What are your values?

All that stuff. And then do that audit. Do that audit, man, . What do other people see in you? What's their experience of you? And then once you see that, you have the alignment or misalignment to work on and that's it. Again, it doesn't mean you gotta do a new logo, it doesn't mean you gotta have a new campaign.

Doesn't need to. You get to figure out and decide how to activate on a set of changes that you need to have. But I think the first step is that. And then once you understand the misalignment, get a brand strategist. You know, get a brand strategist to help you put everything together. Make these critical decisions up front before you spend any money designing anything.

Don't do that. Don't pour your money down the drain. Have a strategy and then work on the deliverables later.

Final Thoughts and Takeaways

[00:57:12] Pat Kothe: One of the things I love about hosting this podcast is I get to learn alongside you. I consider myself to be pretty savvy on brand. But I learned several things in this conversation and will reframe a few others in how I look at branding. My thanks to Howie for helping all of us understand how brand can and should work for us.

A few of my takeaways. First, a brand is a decision making shortcut. Howie said, does someone feel about you when you're not in the room? Not think, but how does somebody feel about you when you're not in the room? Just think about how that weighs into their decision on how they view you and your company, and your products.

Secondly, building a brand with a solid foundation. Probably the most important thing that came out of this, this discussion is building from a solid foundation. So how do you do that? Well, Howie gave us a lot of questions to ask and until we answer these ourselves, we really can't go forward to build on top of this, build on your foundation.

So the questions, what do you believe in? Why are you here? Why do you exist? What is your mission? What's your secret sauce? What are you bringing to the table? What is your value? And how is it different than what's already out there?

Finally, I really like the conversation we talked about the Goldilocks Zone. And that is, you're trying to have an aspirational quality of your business. But if the aspirations are too high That's not good. Uh, so it has to be believable and achievable, but it can't be so low that it's irrelevant to your customer. So there's that Goldilocks zone. Once you, once you have that, then you have to commit to it and do it.And just remember this, people want to engage with people and companies who are striving to achieve.

Thank you for listening. Make sure you get episodes downloaded to your device automatically by liking or subscribing to the Mastering Medical Device podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please spread the word and tell a friend or two to listen to the Mastering Medical Device podcast as interviews like today's can help you become a more effective medical device leader. Work hard, be kind.

 
Patrick Kothe
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