How Teamwork in Sales and the OR Leads to Success
Andrew Mead is a successful orthopedic device sales rep who sells products used in the OR for Smith+Nephew. In this episode Andrew describes the intensity of the training he received and sought out, what separates the consistently good reps, a unique team approach to sales, why putting your customer's needs above yours is the only way to success and redefining what value is. He learned the value of the grind from his days as a baseball player in the minor leagues, preparing him for mastering all of the little things necessary for his role supporting his customers in surgery and with their businesses.
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Episode Transcript
This transcript was generated using an automated transcription service and is minimally edited. Please forgive the mistakes contained within it.
Patrick Kothe 00:31
Welcome. I love the saying "Nothing happens until a sale is made." The saying actually comes from the legendary Thomas Watson, who was president of IBM from 1914 through 56. The reason why I like that saying is I can imagine the precise moment when your customer understands how your product can bring them joy, solve a problem, or make their life easier, then they make the decision to trust you to deliver. And then the rest of our business is really about supporting that moment, and then preparing for many more future moments. The other reason I like it is because we're all in sales, even if it's not in our title. We sell ideas, we sell opinions, we sell ourselves every day. And unless we do it successfully, nothing's going to happen. I'm happy to have a medical device sales person, Andrew Mead, join us today. Andrew is an endoscopy sales rep. And he's also a field sales trainer for Smith & Nephew. He's in the early innings of his career. And we'll talk about that in a couple minutes. But he's really off to a great start. And you're going to hear why. As we get into the discussion, he shares his thoughts on preparation, attitude, mindset, grinding it out, and how their unique team concept for sales works so well to deliver value to their customers. He's gonna take us into his world and show us how he gets to that precise moment when the sale is made. Here's our conversation. Andrew, you've had a unique pathway into medical device sales. You didn't find your way into the industry until about 10 years after you're graduated from college. Can you talk us through your journey?
Andrew Mead 02:43
Yeah, absolutely. You know, as you mentioned, it's definitely far from from traditional. You know, going into college, I always thought that I was going to be an athletic trainer, you know, my I have a background in athletics. You know, I played three sports in high school and was fortunate enough to play in college and after college, but so I knew I wanted to do something in a professional arena around sports. And I always had an interest in the medical capacity. And so I thought that was going to be athletic training. So in high school, I had taken all the anatomies, the basic science athletic training one and two to prepare for that. And then when I went to college, you know, in order to get into the core of the major, I needed to have like 1500 or 2000 field hours before I could actually get into the core of the athletic training major and my primary major at the time was baseball, you know, I went to college to play baseball and you know, taking that much time away from the field, wasn't going to cut it. So I shifted gears and changed my major and the school that I was at, you know, a small school in New York, just south of Syracuse called Cortland. They're a world renowned school for physical education and teaching. And so I shifted gears, you know, for me, it was, you know, the opportunity to teach and to coach and still be around athletics. And so I got a degree in physical education, and then pursued a master's degree in health education. So that's the story into college. And then after college, I was fortunate enough to be drafted by the Chicago White Sox in 2006. And I had a, you know, a short professional baseball career. I played for three years. And you know, during that time, I had already enrolled in grad school, as I mentioned, and so I was, you know, I had I had started so when I got released from from pro ball, I completed my master's. And then I went to work in Washington, DC public schools as a health and physical education teacher. And it was an amazing experience. I met so many good people, so many great kids. And it was at a time when DC public schools was kind of trying to change the game from education standpoint, and, you know, implementing, you know, very strict standards based learning and so on and so forth. It was it was a great opportunity. Just, you know, kind of felt like you know, from a business aspect There was something that was missing for me is extremely gratifying work. And so, you know, I realized at that point that, you know, I was coming from a different world. And so it might not make that much sense if I was going to try to transition into med device at that point, I needed probably, you know, some business experience to a degree. And so I tried to shift gears and make a move that kind of made sense that was still field related to what I did, but it actually transitioned into the nonprofit world where it's loosely business oriented, but it was still field related for me and, and, you know, we did some very meaningful work and the the time that I was there, you know, that time gave me the opportunity to transition and, you know, make sense on a resume. And I started interviewing for jobs in the, you know, med device world, particularly sports medicine was where I wanted to be. And, you know, at that point, you know, I made the transition and was fortunate enough to get an opportunity with the company that I'm still with now, which I'm extremely thankful for, and very, very happy. This is the company I took a role with. And that's, that's Smith and Nephew.
Patrick Kothe 06:04
So kind of going back into into baseball days, what position did you play? I was an outfielder, not not many of us have the chance to play pro ball. So Tom, tell us a little bit more about what it's like to be in the minor leagues.
Andrew Mead 06:20
It was an awesome experience. And I'm very thankful to have had the opportunity, you know, and had the experiences, you mentioned that a lot of people get that chance. And you know, I'll be it. My career was short, I, you know, I got the chance, I'm very thankful for that. And it was a phenomenal experience. But I can tell you, it is a grind, physically and mentally, it's just an absolute grind, you get paid peanuts, and you're on a bus constantly, you know, you have 12 1314 hour bus rides from Missoula, Montana, down to Ogden, Orem, Utah, and you got to play you know, seven game road swing there, and then you stop in Wyoming on the way back. And it's it's a constant grind, but the people that you meet, the quality of people that you meet, and the experiences that you get to have from spring training, working out with big leaguers, and then, you know, traveling and having your season and working with, you know, former big league players, as your coaches and mentors, you know, it really was an awesome opportunity.
Patrick Kothe 07:19
It's interesting that you say it's a grind, associate sales rep can also be a grind. So what did you when you got hired at Smith and Nephew and became associate sales? rep, were there similarities?
Andrew Mead 07:31
Definitely, it's, it's mentally trying. And to a degree, you know, you, you're starting all over again. And you have to learn so much. And you know, now even six years into the job, you're constantly learning every day. And, you know, at this point, still, nobody really, if you want to be successful is above the work of an associate Rep. I mean, still, you know, the name of the game, and sales is growing. And if you're selling to new people, and selling into new accounts, then everybody has got to continually continue to do the same things, which is, you know, dropping trays off going to meetings, covering cases picking stuff up. And that's really kind of the culture of our team now is it's just a constant grind. And if you're not grinding, you're not making money. So yeah, there are definitely a lot of similarities there for sure.
Patrick Kothe 08:18
You're no longer riding the bus. And you're making a little bit more money. But there's still a grind component. Right? For sure. For sure. So let's let's talk about your introduction. How did you get the interview? And how did you get the job?
Andrew Mead 08:35
Yeah, so it's, it's a really funny story, actually. So the way that I became aware of the position being available was during a rec softball league game, he ended up being the the full line sales rep that I ultimately ended up supporting as an associate Rep. You know, just first time I met him, he was a sub on our team, he was a great guy, and we were just chatting, and he's, what do you do? And I'm in the med device industry. Oh, really? That's great. You know, I've been, you know, thinking about cracking in and I'm starting to look at it pretty heavily. Do you know of any opportunities? And, you know, oddly enough and fortunate for me? He said, yeah, we actually we've we've got an opportunity on our team, it's an associate rep position that's open and send me your resume can't Gary guarantee anything but you know, send me your stuff afford it along and that was it. I sent him my stuff that day, he forwarded it along to the hiring manager we set up an interview and that was it. That's how that came to be.
Patrick Kothe 09:32
What was the process like because you know, some some of these processes last last a long time, multiple different people, what was yours? Like?
Andrew Mead 09:39
Yeah, it was exactly that. You know, I think and now being on the other end of it, I can understand it, because there's you know, a lot of relationships come into play and you know, to kind of build a business and defend a business and maintain the business you really got to be conscious of hiring the right person. And so I definitely feel as though Smith and Nephew did their due diligence and really tried to make what they felt was the best decision at the time in hiring that position? You know, I interviewed for it, there were a couple different rounds of interviews, and it took place over the course of I would say, probably, you know, three or four months, until, you know, I was fortunate enough to be offered the position, which I took.
Patrick Kothe 10:21
When I first became a manager, I remember someone telling me something, and it's obviously stuck with me for years, and it's higher in haste. Regret in leisure. That's funny, it really has really, yes, I mean, it's, it's such an important decision that you're making, you're really should take your time with it, and make sure that it's best for both sides. Because you because you're letting somebody walk out the door on their own or walking them out the door is a painful process for both sides. And for the hiring person, you're gonna have, you know, you're gonna have to do it over again. And it's just wasting time.
Andrew Mead 11:00
Yeah, it definitely makes a lot of sense. And, you know, again, being in the role for six years and having the experience that I had, and then, you know, after the fact, having new team members come and go, I can definitely understand the importance of taking your time and really doing your due diligence to make sure that you got the the right kind of person on board that fits with the team and with the overall, you know, vision
Patrick Kothe 11:20
of the business. So Smith and Nephew is a large company, a lot of different products, a lot of different divisions within it. Tell me about the types of products that that you're selling.
Andrew Mead 11:31
Yes, so me particularly, I'm in our sports medicine franchises. So the things that we sell are basically soft tissue repair for, you know, foot and ankle, knee, hip, shoulder extremities. So rotator cuff repair, ACL repair, meniscus repair, you know, things along those lines,
Patrick Kothe 11:53
and the specific products that you're selling, are you selling the biologic material, or you're selling the devices to enable the biological material to be used?
Andrew Mead 12:02
So very good question. The answer is all of the above. But you know, one thing I think is is, you know, unique timing about you asking that question is that Smith and Nephew has invested heavily in some game changing technologies along the biologics front, and one of them is called regedit. And, you know, if you were to Google it, or, you know, do a cursory Google Scholar search to start to learn about the supporting data behind the safety and efficacy of it, it's an exciting product. And so the timing of me coming to Smith and Nephew at the time that I did, while they're investing so heavily in such big innovation, has been very fun. And it's provided a great opportunity for me to have have the ability to sell something that no other company can offer. And nobody has even close to the amount of supporting data for any similar product because there really isn't one. So I mean, that's by far the most exciting and innovative product that that we sell, but yeah, so it's, it's the implants for soft tissue repair itself. And also, you know, things from video equipment to be able to do arthroscopic surgery to be able to see, and then reusable instrumentation to actually do the procedures and put in implants, we do all of that.
Patrick Kothe 13:18
Okay, so arthroscopic surgery, endoscopic surgery. Can you explain a little bit more about that?
Andrew Mead 13:24
Yes. So in in sports medicine, we're it's closed cavity procedure and arthroscopic surgery is, you know, sticking a scope in and, and doing surgery to repair certain patients pathology in a non invasive way. I mean, we say non invasive, because we're doing surgery, and you know, you're getting in there, but in a non invasive way, you essentially create a couple of little poke holes, and you stick an arthroscope in, and then there's a very big monitor, and we have the ability now to be able to see in 4k clarity and resolution. So you can see extremely well, you can see vascularity you can identify, you know, extremely minute differences and soft tissue types. So we can see extremely, extremely well. But basically, you know, the evolution there is going from big open procedures where you were making an incision and, you know, opening the patient up to, you know, a whole bunch of different potential post operative complications with infection. And we now have the ability to do that in a minimally invasive way. But again, creating portals and using an arthroscope.
Patrick Kothe 14:31
So, Andrew, you talked a little bit about the team. So there's a there's a team of people that are supporting surgeries, who's involved in that team.
Andrew Mead 14:41
So beyond just the company and the rep, from my point of view, there's an entire organization that's, you know, the people who are there facilitating the ability to do surgery, so that's it's the surgery center itself, and then all of their staff members, from their administrators, to the nurses, the circulator The pre op and packing staff, the charge nurses, the materials managers, the surgeons themselves. And these are very often the same kinds of people when you're doing surgery in a hospital, you know, even in a different setting. So there's, there's quite a few different people there all anesthesia that have, you know, very, very important roles to help make surgeries go smoothly and safely.
Patrick Kothe 15:26
And as far as a Smith and Nephew team who's who's on your team that supports the surgery, and the surgery center and a surgeon that you're responsible for.
Andrew Mead 15:36
So my specific team, we are a team of five, we have four full line reps and an associate Rep. And then we're one territory within a district of three, three territories. And so there's a director of sales, and then our team. And then we also have, you know, we fall into a region where there's a vice president, and so on, and so forth. So our specific team in our area is myself and four other reps. And, you know, on any given day, depending on what the need is, in a specific facility, there will be one or two or three of us in the same facility. But, you know, from, you know, a sales perspective, you're, you know, the name of the game is growth, and selling into new facilities, and new surgeons and procedures. And so, the team really kind of has to, you know, branch out and cover as much as we can. So, you know, when the situation warrants it, if we have, you know, four rooms going at any given time, then we may have two or three of us there in the facility. Or it could just be one of us running three or four rooms.
Patrick Kothe 16:43
Let's start with your start being an associate, and you said you had one associate with within your, your group, what does an associate do?
Andrew Mead 16:52
Everything. I mean, you know, one of the things that was great, you know, for, for me to learn, and one of the things that when I came on board, part of my experience was, and I've tried to continue to let that be part of the experience for new people that come on board was that everybody gets the opportunity to succeed, and everybody gets the opportunity to kind of carry the torch to a degree. And, you know, the business needs that but also, you know, myself definitely needed it at the time and still do and you know, other other newer reps on our team that come into the territory need to kind of have the have the weight of the significance and the responsibility of what we do, you know, beyond you fully so that you can, you know, comprehend the gravity of the, you know, the responsibility and accountability and just the eyes that are on you, and how important it is, I mean, people are counting on you to do a good job. So that was definitely there. But you know, in terms of an associate is a little bit more of the grunt work than maybe some older seasoned reps are doing. And, you know, I'll preface that by saying, You're going back to what I said earlier, where nobody really is above that. And if you're, you're constantly trying to grow your business, then everybody on the team, regardless of your tenure, should be doing those things. And so we do that, but you know, traditionally, an associate rep will do a little bit more of that, because there's, you know, kind of a grace period, if you will, where you come in, and you have to learn so much information before you would say you're, you know, a functional rep that's covering cases or, you know, selling in certain scenarios on your own. So, there's, there's definitely a little bit more of the grunt work aspect associated with being an associate. But then, you know, to a degree, it's a lot of training, it's a lot of training, getting hands on with products in either a lab setting or, you know, bone block setting. It's, it's a lot of that,
Patrick Kothe 18:50
for sure. With different orthopedic companies, they got different terminology for things and some people have clinical specialists, where they're, they're doing some have an associate role, but it's more on the clinical side of things. And and they're not as the pathway to sales is not as defined as kind of I think what you're saying the associate within your group is really a junior sales representative, and then going to be moving up as long as they learn as long as they're, they're being functional there. But it's not it's not a clinical person. It really truly is on the sales side. Do I have that correct?
Andrew Mead 19:28
Yeah, that's correct. And, you know, whether that's, you know, just kind of our own district sales philosophy or a greater Smith and Nephew sales philosophy. I mean, the company asks a lot of us in terms of being a very well rounded resource for our accounts, which in turn allows us to add more value to the accounts and that's really kind of central to our success as a district is just finding ways to add more value. And so you know, from the inside with our own team success, we want everybody to be able to share In that, and we don't, you know, in my own thought is that we just don't get there by you know, one person hoarding all the opportunities or responsibilities or successes is genuinely you know, team opportunities, team successes, everybody has the opportunity to succeed and tie, you know, revenue or success stories to their name. So that's, that's genuinely the way that we, we want to conduct our business,
Patrick Kothe 20:22
some sales are, are intensive, in that you're providing value walking into the O r, you're really bringing technical expertise into the O r, and some are less sell some, the surgeon knows what they're doing. But you've got a lot of instrumentation, some, some have a lot of instrumentation. So having a sales rep, there is really a necessity. Is that what you guys are?
Andrew Mead 20:49
Yes, but I think it's exactly what you said there are certain facilities and certain surgeons that require more or less of you. So, I mean, we have a pretty good idea of who needs what and we try to really do a good enough job, or a good job, I'm sorry, in training our our own staff and our own team and myself, and you know, some of my partners and our associate reps so that regardless of the facility that you walk into, you're well rounded enough that you could troubleshoot, you know, any problem that they may have with equipment, whether it's a video tower, or you know, a shaver, or one console, or, you know, something like that, or if it's you know, knowing that we need to go through the instrumentation for a very complex open, you know, multiligament knee procedure and get a scrub tech set up with all the instruments in the appropriate order based on the surgeon, you know, anything like that. So depending on the surgeon, and depending on the facility that you're in, you could be leaned on a lot more heavily or less heavily. Some surgeons will tell you, they don't even want you there. But then other surgeons, the expectation is that you are there, and you are buttoning everything up so that they don't even have to ask for an instrument, they just put their hand out and it's prepared. Got it.
Patrick Kothe 22:06
So let's talk about training a little bit, because you came in to a to a setting where you didn't know anything about surgery, you didn't know anything about the products, you didn't know anything about the technology of the surgeon surgery itself. How did you learn it?
Andrew Mead 22:25
Good people, number one. So that was one of the things that was very influential in my decision to work with Smith enough, you know, I had a couple opportunities to work with some other companies. But that was one of the things that was not lost on me was that I was essentially starting over. And so some of the questions that I had when I was going into the role is, you know, I know I'm starting over, I know, I'm going to need to work hard, you can count on me to do that. But what investment is the company going to make and helping me get to a point where I'm serviceable, and the hiring manager at the time. And everything he said if he was true to his word, he said that you can count on Smith and Nephew making a very big investment in your success. And this is the way that the trainings will go. It's a very stepwise process. So there was and it continues to evolve now, but I mean, there were, you know, multiple trainings where I flew to our headquarters and I trained in cadaver labs, I trained in bone block, I had didactic lectures that I sat through to learn that the anatomy, the pathology, current surgical techniques, our products, and how our products are used and can be used safely and effectively, you know, ultimately, beyond just what the company kind of provides you. And I think a lot of other reps would agree with this is that you can get as good as you want, it's just going to take the extra effort outside of work hours, you know, if you really want to dedicate yourself to your craft, and you really want to be a resource, and you want to be a resource quicker than if you just went through the motions and did the, you know regimented company sales trainings, you have to put the work in on your own. You know, that was something that wasn't lost on me, I think it's just kind of ingrained in me in my athletic background, it's just if you want the next step, you got to work for it, and no one's going to put the work in for you. You just have to do it. And so the company again, you know, hats off to Smith and Nephew, because their sales training and their medical education teams do an amazing job and creating content that reps can go back and revisit on their own. And so, you know, we have an awesome resource called education and evidence. And so I basically lived on that. And it was, you know, surgeons presenting their own surgical rationale for performing techniques and surgical demonstrations on how to do it with Smith and Nephew products. And so, you know, that I basically lived on that resource and I still do because, you know, again, six years in, I still you know, I don't know what I don't know, and I don't know what situation I'm gonna walk into. So I just need to be as prepared as I possibly can. So That. I mean, that's a little bit about how I went about it.
Patrick Kothe 25:03
How long did it take you to feel comfortable, you're always learning, we're all we're always learning, but how did it take for you to feel like you are competent and confident to go into
Andrew Mead 25:15
competent and confident, definitely different than comfortable, because still, I would say, depending on the situation, you're not always comfortable, you know, because to a degree, you know, the things that you're selling your devices still need to perform. And you know, I have a tremendous amount of confidence that they will, but you just, you never know what situation you're walking into. And, you know, certain surgeons have different levels of patience, and you know, like to listen a whole lot more than others, some surgeons will just say, give me the device, I know what to do with it. And you know, those situations don't always go that well, because there might be a little nuance or something you need to explain that will make it go smoothly. So comfortable. Still not always 100%, but competent, and confident, I would say, a year and a half to two years before I really felt comfortable going into a complex procedure or going into a selling scenario and having a high level conversation with a surgeon about, you know why we would do something a certain way or why this technology is more beneficial, or how it would impact your your practice and your patients that was probably closer to about two years.
Patrick Kothe 26:22
I can't remember my first sales call, and then the medical device field. And I gone through about a five week training program, and got all of the book learning done. And it was not as complex as what was what you're talking about. But I can remember and I can remember going and talking to a cardiology fellow as my first sales call. And I can remember the flopsweat I can't remember how poorly I did, I can still picture him being gracious, as I'm kind of wandering through a sales call. Yeah. Can you remember that?
Andrew Mead 27:00
Yes. Yes, it still happens, it happens frequently, you just, you just never know. And that's, that's kind of why I feel like you have to continually go above and beyond to just learn as much as you can and see as much different stuff as you can because you know, no one surgeons the same, they may have the same, you know, mannerisms or, you know, kind of wear with all their expectations. But when it comes to, you know, doing surgery and doing things a certain way, everybody you know, has their own preferences, and you just never know what you're gonna get. And again, the name of the game and sales is growth. And so you need to be selling to new surgeons, and everyone is a new new opportunity, a new experience.
Patrick Kothe 27:43
So you've got two sides of your business. One is supporting surgery, and really being in surgery and helping with that surgical team. The other side is sales. So you got training on on the on the first part, what kind of training Do you get on the sales side.
Andrew Mead 27:59
So and again, hats off to Smith and Nephew, they've invested very heavily in this regard as well, on the actual business side, and helping reps understand how to sell and sell at a higher level. Because, you know, in the current climate now, with surgery, transitioning so heavily to the ASC environment, the sale just has becomes increasingly complex, there are so many different layers to doing business. And it's no longer you know, basically a myopic single at least in in sports medicine now for you know, for Smith and Nephew competing against some of the companies that we do is that it's very rarely a myopic singular product. Besides regenitive, that is going to I'm going to meet about a very specific product, the surgeon is going to want this one specific product. Usually now it's increasingly complex, because there's capital equipment that's involved in ASC don't want to spend money on capital, because it's not something that's reimbursable or something they get back. It's just they spend it and it's gone. And it takes a big hole out of their business. And so, you know, now, what companies are doing are getting increasingly more creative on incentivizing or accommodating people on capital equipment and lumping in multiple segments of their disposable business. And so, you know, competing with that is very complex. And so the company has invested very, very heavily in helping us navigate current climates and helping our customers understand how Smith and Nephew is uniquely positioned to maximize value to that account.
Patrick Kothe 29:40
So Andrew, you're talking about ASC is our ambulatory surgery centers, some people may not know what that is. So an ASC can be owned by physicians can be owned by a hospital group can be owned by an outside outside interest. Each one of those different business models can affect the way that you Sell. So can you talk us a little bit more about motivation, and whether it's just clinical results or balancing clinical results and financial results?
Andrew Mead 30:13
I would say that, I think decreasingly it is purely clinical decisions, I think, you know, certain instances when there's just a staggering amount of proof that any one specific product or technology is far better, and there aren't competitive things available. You know, that would be an instance where a product would win on its clinical merits alone. But you know, as I mentioned before, there is so much of a balance between, you know, the facility's own profitability, and without sacrificing any kind of clinical success or without, you know, nobody's going to use a product. That's, that's not clinically sufficient, they're not but you know, when you talk about a lot of different vendors competing in the same space with clinically equivalent in terms of an outcome, you know, we may be selling something that we feel is more advantageous because of a certain feature. But when it comes to showing enhanced patient outcomes, surgeons perception a lot of the time is that an anchor is an anchor and implants an implant, I just needed to do one thing, and I'm going to go with the lowest cost or, you know, if a group is successful at you know, bundling a bigger deal together, where, you know, we can incentivize you to, you know, kind of recoup the cost of some capital by using some disposables, but there's a big classification of disposables, then facilities tend to transition more towards that vendor that they felt was most creative and accommodating them in that way. And so you usually tend to see disposables from the company that provided the account with the capital equipment get used more frequently.
Patrick Kothe 32:03
providing value is beyond the product. In some instances, sales representatives are extremely valuable, because they're part of the surgical team. How do you differentiate yourself to be recognized as a value add to your product offering?
Andrew Mead 32:23
It's very difficult. That's it's a very good question. And I think the reps that can figure out how to do that are going to be the ones that are, you know, successful year over year, and the ones that are standing on the stage at their annual sales meeting most frequently. Most often, we find ourselves having to kind of redefine value in our accounts. Because as we mentioned, things transition to the ASC and everything up front is, you know, what's the lowest cost? What's the lowest cost? What's the lowest cost? Well, let's talk about what your overall vision is for the center. Do you guys want to be a center that just does, you know, nice scopes and shoulder scopes? Are you trying to build total joint programs? And you know, what does it cost you to do that? What kind of training Do you need for your staff to be able to do that? What kind of equipment are you going to need to be able to do that, and let's talk about value at a bigger level and how we're uniquely positioned to be able to add that value to you. And so it's a really difficult process. I won't even say conversation, because nothing, nothing happens after a singular conversation. It's, you know, things like that, and relationships like that, and business partnerships like that. Develop over, you know, months and years. And it's it's a challenge. And I think, you know, ultimately, you really build somebody's trust and you know, solidify that you're an exceptional resource and add an exceptional amount of value, after an initial deal may get done. I mean, somebody may trust that you add enough value, to partner with you to get done something that they might have needed. But it's not till after the fact that you've serviced them, and you've continued to open their eyes to how valuable you could be that they really fully kind of understand that.
Patrick Kothe 34:08
Yeah, I think table stakes are you need to be an expert at your product, and you need to be valuable within the O r setting. But what you're talking about is practice building and getting inside of their minds for what's important to them. What are they trying to do strategically with their business? And what are they trying to do strategically with their practice that will elevate you from a sales rep to a consultant?
Andrew Mead 34:34
Yes, that's exactly it. And again, you very frequently we find ourselves trying to redefine what value is because it's just perceived so myopically as one product versus another product, when there could be a way that we could make this exponentially more valuable to you to choose a product that maybe is not the lowest cost option, but you know, it's how you uncover that and how you To work with the account to get them to see that that that is really the sale it's that is the sale is getting somebody to believe in the value that you add versus just on a myopic level. What is the value of this one specific product is? That is really the sale. That is the challenge.
Patrick Kothe 35:19
You mentioned earlier that you're working a team of five sales reps and and one associate, yeah, four and one associate forum one, okay, now, okay. Great. So you got for a foreign one, and you're covering the same geography are you covering it's some, some companies break it down by surgeon. So your response, I'm responsible for these three surgeons are responsible for those four does that the way you guys do it?
Andrew Mead 35:46
It's not it's, you know, that it's successful, and we've seen it be successful. So for some companies, but it's just not the model that we use. And, you know, from where we sit, if we are continually trying to grow, because you know, that that model kind of breeds complacency to a degree, right, you know, you have limited places you need to be, which means you have limited people that could potentially use your product, which means, you know, busy, happy, good kind of mentality. And that's not necessarily what our team culture is about. And that's, that's not what we want our business to be, we want to be continually growing. And so having the model that we have, where we have, you know, probably 75 accounts, in our territory with, you know, five reps that can service them, we try to, you know, build our business in a way and prepare our reps in a way where it could be a revolving door of who's there, as long as the account knows, this is our team. And on any given day, you could get this representative of our team. And regardless of the issue, whatever representative on your team can handle it, and we're going to take as good care of you, there's not going to be one rep that can take better care of you of the other. And that really allows us to, you know, be in a scenario where if I book a meeting with a surgeon or a new case with a surgeon on a Tuesday, and I'm usually spending my time with a different surgeon on a Tuesday, there's no lag, there's no worry that the surgeon that I'm leaving is going to be taken care of as good as I would have covered them, you know, our that's really the way that we want to do it. And we want to be a well oiled machine, because again, we want to be able to continue to grow.
Patrick Kothe 37:23
So Andrew are your objectives, your sales objectives, are they team objectives are the individual objectives, their team team objectives, sink or swim as a team. So if the four of your effort, the five of you, hang on to the current business, grow, grow your current business, and bring on some, some new, new customers, you might be the one standing up on stage, all four of you are all five of you.
Andrew Mead 37:49
That's right. You know, and fortunately, out of the past three years, we won back to back president's club trips. And, you know, the way that the company recognizes them are the reps that are whose names are tied to the territory. So it wouldn't be an associate Rep. But we took the stage as a team, because, you know, again, the goal is not for the associate rep to be an associate rep forever, if that's what they wanted, then we wouldn't have hired that rep to be on our team as our associates. And so, you know, again, it's allowing the entire team to share in the ownership and success of the team. And that's just the way that we that's what we believe. And that's just the way that we want to do our business.
Patrick Kothe 38:32
Well, first of all, congratulations back to back is a very difficult thing to do. And I'm doing it as a team, I think it's really interesting, because standing up being the one is really cool. To stand up, I'm the one, you know, I'm the top or I'm the top rap or top regional manager, or I'm the Rookie of the Year. But doing it with a team is more going back to your baseball days, going back to your sports days. those are those are really fun, group accomplishments.
Andrew Mead 39:06
It is for sure. And that's it. That's just the way that the world works, I think, you know, kind of being humble and kind of realizing that it is a team and everybody having the opportunity can contribute to the team is that is just the ideal scenario because I could be working on a deal. And let's say I close the last couple $100,000 Capital deal, and I'm working on that deal. And then I don't close it and it doesn't fall through. But my partner was working on something else. And he closes his deal or she closes her deal. And now the team is right. You know, we're right there. We're in the hunt. We're still contributing because everybody on the team was digging in their own directions and driving and trying to grow new business and that's what we want. We don't want one hunter and four gathers we want you know, we want five hunters and the name of the game. That's just the way that we think and that's that's what we do.
Patrick Kothe 40:00
So a lot of times when you have to back to back years, where you're really blown, blown it out making president's club, the next year, becomes a little bit more difficult. How did you guys deal with the third year?
Andrew Mead 40:17
Yeah, so to add another dynamic to that the COVID, I mean, that presented its own unique challenges. But I think in all of that, you should never be going into a new year kind of blank slate, you should, you should constantly be already working on new opportunities, and selling into new facilities and new surgeons, and so constantly keeping irons in the fire is really the way to do it. And, you know, I think the nature of the way that we were structured in our territory prior to, you know, when I came in lent itself, and some things that transpired, you know, subsequently, very shortly after I came in, opened the door to kind of have the success that we did, because, you know, in our market in Washington, DC, and tri state area is a very, you know, densely populated area with a ton of Orthopedic Surgery happening, and you know, at the time, we were really kind of under resourced in the area. And so that was the biggest investment was building a quality team of quality people that kind of bought in, and the market is there, the opportunities were there, we just needed the right people to do it. And so, you know, we were very, very fortunate, you know, to build a great team, and to have a good plan. And basically just continue to do the things that we've been doing. And, you know, COVID presented a lot of unique challenges and the way that people do surgery, and it just added a layer of complexity to the sale, but it's just repetition. You know, going back to, you know, my athletic days, it's just repetition and repetition of doing the right things. And we had a good recipe. So it's just continually staying on top of the business and targeting and moving and not being complacent. That's, that's it. It's no secrets. That's it.
Patrick Kothe 42:04
So Andrew, you talked about the training that you received, and now you're providing training. So as a field sales trainer, what are your duties there? And how do you? How do you perform training from his Field Sales standpoint?
Andrew Mead 42:21
Yeah, great question. So you know, a lot of it has to do with new hires within our own district. I mean, that's, you know, that's a lot of the hands on that we do most frequently. So, you know, a new rep comes in, whether it's on my team, or in a different territory within our district, you know, me being a field sales trainer, and I share the role of field sales trainer with a colleague and another territory within our own district. So now, you know, we've got to and that way, you know, I think there's, you know, 15, or 20 reps in our territory, and so you have access to somebody with some, you know, experience in some success that can, you know, kind of help you get to where you need to be. So, there's a lot of that learning the day to day functioning. And then, you know, one thing that I'll say to that end is not only from a sales rep, an opportunity standpoint, to be able to, you know, have opportunities to sell and succeed, but also to help enable teammates to help train other people as well. And so, you know, delegating, and enabling and empowering the rest of the teammates to take ownership and training new hires is definitely something that's, you know, helped, it's, it's taken, you know, some burden off myself to be able to, you know, continue to drive business the same way that we're always used to doing. So there's that aspect of the local local training. And then, you know, Smith and Nephew provides some very unique opportunities to kind of guide the development of future trainings. And so, you know, over the past couple of years, we've had the opportunity to build new trading structures, a new levels of training for reps beyond just new hires. And so it's influencing training development programs, and then it's helping facilitating different training programs that might happen at our national sales meeting, or that might happen up at headquarters. Or it could be, you know, an elective, you know, we talked about COVID, you know, preventing or providing a lot of unique challenges, a lot of virtual trainings now, so, it's a lot of that, you know, it's tireless, but it's an investment in the business at a bigger scale than just our own territory, and it's something that I really enjoy.
Patrick Kothe 44:25
So what is training look like? Are they coming into your territory and you're doing over them? Are you going into their territory, you know, what does it look like?
Andrew Mead 44:36
Now, it's other reps coming into our territory, so we would kind of float around within our own district, but now I think to make it the most feasible, it's new reps coming and working with you and your own territory because you have you know, you're you can basically teach the things and, you know, demonstrate the things that you did and make it you know, very real and, you know, here this is the story This account, this is how we did this, this is how we do that this is, you know, so and so and most relevant fashion. And it's, you know to that and it's also it puts the onus on the rep themselves to seek out the training to a degree, you know, beyond the regimented here, you have to attend this training at corporate or this virtual training. So there's a lot of that. But you know, getting the hands on getting the nitty gritty, we want to see that people have the drive to do that. So we put the onus on them to reach out to their field sales trainer to schedule the time to do that. And it's been successful.
Patrick Kothe 45:30
So six years in, you've worked within your team, you've trained people, you've seen competitive reps, you've seen the good and the bad. What separates a great rep, from one that's not so great?
Andrew Mead 45:47
It's such a tough question I've heard there's, it's not really but there's, there's a lot of different answers to it. But I think, you know, first and foremost, being a good person. And ultimately, kind of having this go giver mentality, where you, you put the customer first and you find a way to make sure that you communicate to them that they are the most important person in the world to you. And that you're going to do everything in your power to add as much value as you can. So I think I and then on top of that, it's the people that are not scared to put the additional work in, you know, beyond regular work hours. So I think I think that's really the recipe, but then I think the ones that stick around are the ones that figure out the way to, to, to take care of their customer first. And they're the ones that really do a good job at communicating the value that they add, and developing very strong relationships.
Patrick Kothe 46:40
The way that you guys are set up is you're, you're a member of two teams, you're a member of your Smith and Nephew team, and then you're a member of whatever surgical team that you're in. How do you balance those two things?
Andrew Mead 46:57
I think it just inherently kind of balances itself. I mean, I think the real balance is balancing the family life on top of doing all those things. You know, I think that's the real doubts. Because, you know, I've got two young kids at home. And, you know, I have a four year old daughter who's, you know, started school, and I have a two year old son, and it's, it's exhausting. You know, figuring out the trajectory of your business and figuring out the recipe for success, and then trying to replicate it day in and day out and just continue to do the things that are going to make the business successful. And as you continually do that, you continually spread yourself thinner and thinner and thinner, because the name of the game is growth. So you know, really, the that irons itself out, you know where you need to be going. And what you need to be doing with the real balances is balancing the home life. And so it's, you know, adding resources to the team. And, you know, again, I think because of our model and how we try to make it so that any rep is fluid in any account allows us the ability to do that. If somebody just says guys, I'm gassed, I needed, I need a day, you know, I'm going to go home and, you know, see my mom and dad or I'm going to take a day or you know, I'm going to just take a long weekend, go ahead and do it, you know, get your head right get your break, do your thing. Or if I you know, I have something where you know, I'm taking my daughter to or picking her up from school or she's got something going on, we make that work. But I think that's the biggest balance.
Patrick Kothe 48:28
Some surgical jobs are, you know, 637 in the car, and you're out by five or so some are on call for all types of different things. What do you guys.
Andrew Mead 48:42
So that's one of the things that's probably most appealing about orthopedic sports medicine is that it it loosely follows regular business hours. I don't know how trauma reps do it. I mean, just I don't I don't know how you have a family and you say, Hey, you know, sorry, today, my phone just went off, it's 230 in the morning and your son's crying, but I gotta cover this case, I don't, you know, my heart goes out to trauma reps, I just I don't know how they do it. But you know, in orthopedic sports medicine, it largely does follow. And and again, you know, there are a lot of things that could happen throughout the day that could make it not follow up, you know, kind of a regular schedule with, you know, instrument trays not being ready or something hitting the ground or there's a delay or they didn't sign consent or the patient ate, or the patient didn't show up on time. So, but to a degree usually does kind of follow a regular schedule, you know, seven a operative time. And then you're usually done, you know, late afternoon, working in
Patrick Kothe 49:39
a medical device company. There's all kinds of people in a medical play all kinds of functional areas. And some of them you've already mentioned that you interface with a lot you know, the sales, sales management, other people on your team sales training, those are people that you interface with a lot. Then there's all kinds of other other feed people the clinical regulatory manufacturing people Anse compliance, all kinds of different things. Do you have any relationship with anybody other than the first group of people?
Andrew Mead 50:09
Yes. Yes, we do. Yeah. thankful to report that, and I don't, I don't have a very strong relationship with compliance people. Group, I wanted to stay entirely off their radar so that I, you know, I'm doing everything ethically, and not somebody that that group needs to worry about. But um, you know, one of the groups that we get to work increasingly close with as we continue to innovate with technology is our marketing and commercial marketing teams, you know, these are the teams that are, you know, their fingers are on the pulse with developing the newest, latest, greatest, most innovative stuff. And part of their process, which I'm, you know, I'm very thankful for with with Smith and Nephew is that, you know, they do give reps the opportunity to kind of, you know, peek behind the curtain and, you know, add insight and, you know, get voc your voice, a customer, you know, working with searchers to help develop some of those technologies to make sure that, you know, when they do come out, they're ready for primetime. And so, you know, that's probably one of the most exciting divisions of the company that I get to work with our marketing and commercial marketing franchises.
Patrick Kothe 51:18
What do you think that people inside, whether they're in manufacturing and r&d, whatever people inside the company, what do you think they don't know about? sales reps?
Andrew Mead 51:27
I don't know. I can tell you what I think they do know is that sales reps are pushy, and they want what they want when they want it. And if they can't get it, they can't make money. I think they know that. I don't know. You know, we're fortunate enough, you know, at our company, and I'm sure other companies I know other companies are this way, but there's so many great people in Smith and Nephew. And I think everybody you know, does a really good job realizing that people are people, you know, any one given day when a rep might have been a little bit mouthy, and Hey, listen, guys, I can I get this stuff, I need this stuff, you got to get it out. It's, you know, nothing personal, nothing. In particular, it's just kind of, you know, people are people and everybody's gonna have their own good and bad days.
Patrick Kothe 52:12
So you've got other people in the inside your company to or there's are there some areas of the company that you would like to have more information on? Hmm,
Andrew Mead 52:22
yes. Yes. Our m&a team, I want to know the people who the mergers and acquisitions, I want to know what's coming. I want to know what they're working on what they're looking at. I want to know those things.
Patrick Kothe 52:36
Got it, and the sales management team will see will tell you sell What's in your bag.
Andrew Mead 52:41
Exactly. That's exactly it. Don't worry about that you have so much good technology. You're right. But I want to know what's coming next. Yeah. The reason why I
Patrick Kothe 52:52
asked the question is, you know, this podcast cut touches all different functional areas. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to learn, you know, what everybody doesn't know about the other areas, and really expose people to, to all different different things, because someone that's working in r&d may not know what what the life of a sales rep is just like you wouldn't know what the life of an r&d engineer is all about. So that's kind of what we're Yes. Going to ask that question. It's a great question. It really is a great question. So you've spent five or six years now in the industry, and experienced quite quite a bit. Have you found your home?
Andrew Mead 53:30
I think so. I genuinely love what I'm doing. I genuinely love the opportunity to be in a position to have you know, the accountability where surgeons and patients indirectly they don't know it, but they're counting on me. They're counting on my team. They're counting on us to show up, I genuinely feel good about what I do and what I'm able to provide to surgeons into facilities. And, you know, from, you know, fulfillment standpoint, yes, I'm there. I love it. I love sales. It's dynamic. I love the opportunity to work with new people, different people constantly. I think, you know, ultimately, for me, maybe transitioning later if if I'm fortunate enough, and, you know, if I'm continuous enough, God willing to have, you know, some success to transition maybe into a sales management role, I think, you know, down the line, I think that could be desirable. But yes, and particularly with this company, I mean, again, I've said a number of times with a nephew is just a ton of great people, amazing people and you know, I'm thankful to them for taking a chance on me years ago and bringing me on board and I genuinely love Smith and Nephew.
Patrick Kothe 54:35
Andrew has certainly taken advantage of his opportunity. You can see why he's been successful, and why success is probably going to follow him in the future. A few of my takeaways, he said, you have to put the work in on your own, not just what your company offers. That's the bare minimum. No one is going to put The work and for you, you just have to do it. Wow. Well said, that's the grind, doing tough work when no one is looking really great words from Andrew there. Secondly, redefining what value is you may not have the lowest cost option. But read redefining value. That's actually the sale. That's the challenge. And finally, the team compensation model, I really, really liked that I really thought it was a nice way to do it for for their company and their industry is for every every company, but for them, it really works out well. But to do it, everyone must be consistent. You have to have the same attitude when you're going out to your customer. And I think that they do what he talked about was put the customer first, your second and he talked about the go giver mentality. Thank you for listening. Make sure you get episodes downloaded to your device automatically by liking or subscribing to the mastering medical device, podcast and Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please spread the word and tell a friend or to listen to the mastering medical device podcast as interviews like today's can help you become a more effective medical device leader. Work hard. Be kind
