Proven Processes to Simplify and Assure Sales Success - Part 1
Jim Surek is a recognized sales leader whose teams have performed wherever he has been, based on proven sales principles. Jim is currently VP of Sales at Explorer Surgical and is also host of the podcast, Medical Sales Nation. In this episode Jim shares how medical sales has changed, why reps have evolved into enterprise salespeople, his mindset of helping to heal our healthcare system, developing a value proposition for a multi-headed customer, commercialization as an initiative, the importance of sales skills, sales training based on real customer knowledge, and how to begin a salesforce in a start-up.
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Episode Transcript
This transcript was generated using an automated transcription service and is minimally edited. Please forgive the mistakes contained within it.
Patrick Kothe 00:31
Welcome! Nothing happens until a sale is made. That's a saying that was made famous by Thomas Watson, who was president of IBM in the first half of the 1900s. Well, it was true then and it's still true today. Sales is critical to every company. Yet many people don't understand how complex it's become within medical device. A sales leader who thoroughly understands the sales process and develops a culture environment. And then the systems based on understanding this multifaceted customer group that we've got now is critical to any successful company. Jim Surek is our guest today. He's a recognized sales leader whose teams have performed wherever he's been. And it's based on the principles he's learned along a very successful career. Jim's dedicated his career to understanding the whys in the house of sales. And he's here today to share what sales is really all about in today's environment. Jim's currently VP of sales at explore surgical, but he's contributed to many different companies and actually, some of his contributions have led to five company exits, which is something that's pretty unique in our field. He's been with Medtronic Sofamor Danek, Advanced Bionics, EntellusMedical, Stimware, Osprey Medical and General Medical. Jim's very active on LinkedIn, and has a podcast called medical sales nation. I'd strongly suggest you connect with with Jim on LinkedIn, and also follow his podcast. Jim's the real deal, and his content is great. It's always relevant, and it comes from a good place. It's about helping you know, it's not about him. I had originally scheduled this to be one episode, but we really got on a roll and talked for quite a while because we got into so many interesting topics. So I broken this into two episodes. In his first episode, we discuss how medical sales is changed, why reps have evolved into enterprise salespeople, his mindset helping to heal our healthcare system, developing a value proposition to a multi headed customer commercialization as an initiative, the importance of sales skills and why that has eroded over time, sales training based on real customer knowledge, and how to begin a sales force in a startup environment. Here's our conversation. Jim, thanks so much for joining us.
Jim Surek 03:42
Glad to be here. Pat, thank you for having me. Well,
Patrick Kothe 03:45
Jim, you've had a long and illustrious sales career. And I wanted to kind of talk about that a little bit. And because there's so much it's changed in the decades since you started in sales. So can you can you just from a big picture standpoint, talk about, you know, some of the big changes that you've seen relative to sales of medical devices?
Jim Surek 04:06
Yeah, so I mean, and when you talk about sales, though, I mean, that encompasses, you know, a broad spectrum of what a sales rep does, right? Because it's not just selling it's servicing, right? And especially in the med device world. But I mean, if we're talking about, you know, changes over my career, you know, I started off on the device side, working for a company called Dannic, which became sophomore organic and soft, organic became Medtronic soft, organic, and now it's Medtronic spine and biologics. And, you know, when I first started there, it was, I mean, it was wonderful, right? You could walk in and see a doc there were only at the time, maybe four or five competitors and maybe two big ones. If that. Go in and see a doc, look, you know, have a nice conversation, meet them and then he She would have a case, and you'd walk your stuff right in, right? I just bring my stuff right in. I didn't go down the sterile processing, we just autoclaved it came out, we started using it, and the hospital, a billing sheet with the pricing, and you got a PIO and you build it. And I bet most of the people listening to this, can't even imagine what's going on. That was
Patrick Kothe 05:25
back back in the day, where if you if you stepped foot in purchasing, you felt embarrassed because you didn't feel like you belong down there.
Jim Surek 05:33
That's exactly right. I would, I would always say, Oh, there's the purchasing person, I turn around and make a left sided. And so I mean, when you look at it from that perspective, that relationship between, you know, the device company, and the doctor was incredibly strong, incredibly tight. It still is today on that side of the coin, but there was more of a collaboration, and the hospitals where they just did their their surgery. But now there's a partnership between the hospital and the doctor. That's overwhelming the relationship with the device company, right. So that that is switched. And everyone was always talking about how that was going to switch over time. Right. And it did. And I remember, you know, just another story. itself organic, we're coming out with the cervical plate. It's called the Orion cervical plate. It was it was a game changer. And I brought it in and the O R purchasing person said, Well, I said, Hey, Dr. So and So wants to use this, on this case coming up. I know he has sent these on, but he wants to use this. It's like, No, he can't do that. And, you know, at the time, I was like, what would you mean? He's like, Well, he can't use that. You know, you didn't let me know, and all this stuff. And I and I said, Well, I'm not gonna go tell him, you can go tell him. Because I'm here because this is what he wants, I'm not going to deliver that news. So five minutes later, he comes back, he goes, okay, yeah, doctor wants to use this cervical planning system. So go ahead and autoclave it. Right? That doesn't happen anymore, right. And so from that access from that ability to influence and have that really strong clinical relationship really drove a lot of the fun and the excitement around what we did, I would talk to on Sunday nights, for about two years, a Chief of Surgery at one of the major teaching institutions, Chief of orthopedics, will call me every Sunday night at, we'd go through all his cases that were going on that week, made sure I touch base with the residents and fellows, that everything was set up. That just paints another picture of how that was done. I just don't think that's done as much as it was in the past. And so, you know, I'm painting this relationship, this engagement between a doctor and a surgeon and the device company, it's just not that easy anymore. And so now for a sales rep over the years, you have to become much more sophisticated, you have to know the hospitals that you're dealing with. Not every hospital is the same. You have to understand once you go to their website, understand what their goals are, their commitment to the community, start really paying attention to who's who within that hospital, the VP of all the different line services that you're on, make sure you know who that is, you obviously have to have a really good relationship with the supply chain people as well. So you're, you're now an enterprise sales person. Where before you are a one to one, you know, sales person within that hospital with that surgeon. So if you think about b2b salespeople, that's truly where sales, medical device sales has gone. And it continues to go that way. Even from a selling perspective, you have to start using different applications such as LinkedIn to start engaging with doctors and not Hey, Doc, can I have come by and show you my new tool, but engaging in content, engaging in scientific studies in research and things that that specific doctor is posting or talking about, and then sharing other content, even before you even meet that person? So that's a rapport building exercise that now is taking place online, versus where I would just walk into the office, try to get past the receptionist, talk to the doctor's nurse, get to know them to get to the doctor. So that whole cycle and how you go about building credibility has changed. I've always you know, thought, you know the best reps were the were very clinically sound but they also Oh, were were great business people at the same time. Now, you have to be clinically sound social media expert, right? Still be able to build rapport and be that b2b person throughout the enterprise. So the job itself has evolved in that direction,
Patrick Kothe 10:18
as you're talking about this. Some of those changes, in my opinion, some, a lot of those changes are positive for the industry. And so there's, there's, you know, things like not doing business over the Gulf at the golf course not doing business at an expensive dinner, I think those are really good things for the industry. You're building rapport, but you're building rapport differently, you're building it more clinically, you're building it, you know, as you're providing value to the person. But some of these things that were not of medical value, I think it's good that those have washed out of the industry. And from a personal development, you talked about the enterprise sale. And I think that that's a really good thing for people to because they're not just just thinking about the use of the product, they're thinking about how the product is used throughout the system, and having to have positives at every level of that sale from the C suite down to the people who are getting rid of the product at the end of the day. So all of those people within the enterprise sale, I think it makes you a more valuable person more valuable salesperson as well. How do you see some of these benefits as being positive?
Jim Surek 11:33
Yeah, so and that's the thing is I don't think of them as negative, right? It's just an evolution. And that's what people have to realize, just because it's changed doesn't mean it's bad, right? It's just the evolution, I always, you know, on. When I'm publishing material, whether it's podcasting or on LinkedIn, I'm always talking about helping healing our healthcare system, right. So all these changes are helping healing to heal our healthcare system is the way I look at it. Because you're right, being that better business person is going to bring what what we call that value. And what was done before, I mean, years ago was I have a new pedicle screw, right? It's $400 more expensive than the one that Doc's using today. Sure, it has some more functionality to it, but it's not really worth $400 A screw more, which then is $1,600 more a case, I'm going to go get the doctor to use this, right? That's not healthy, right? And, and so, so that's gone away. But now when we look at products, because of these changes, at least the way that I think about it, I always look at it. When you're gonna introduce a new product, you have to think about it as a funnel, you're going to drop the product through a funnel, and that first third of the funnel is the clinical value, what is the clinical value to the patient? The doctor, because there is a clinical value, whether it's saving time, or whatever better outcomes to his or her practice, to the hospital, and they work in and the healthcare system. So you have to answer those questions. If you can answer the value to this multi headed customer clinically, then you just have a commodity that you're just trying to shove into the healthcare system. And hospitals through the vet committees have weeded that out. And so now the next third is financial value, the financial value to the patient, the doctor, the practice, the provider, the healthcare system. And it's not always about making money. It's also about saving money. And saving, you know, if the financial value to the patient is that, like when we're out and tell us instead of going to the O R and having a sinus procedure, and you're out for five days, seven days of work, you're back to work the next day. So your financial value is you're back at work the next day, right? And there is a financial value to the practice the doc and the healthcare system. Instead of spending $40,000 on the sinus procedure. Now it's $10,000, huge value. And then the next third of that is that strategic value. And that one becomes more complicated. Because it's like, well, what is strategic mean? Well, if I'm an if I have a new product that can pass clinical and financial for the multi headed customer, and I'm an early adopter, how do I differentiate myself within the community of providing something new that's better from you know, clinically and financially so now I have a strategic component to it as the doctor, their practice as well as the hospital. So because of all the changes that we're talking about, the good comes from it when people start looking at products that way, and then you have to educate your Salesforce speak in that way. And then you have to educate them to sell to the multi headed customer, which is all about value now. And if you can't have that conversation, I tell people all time, go ask the company that you're interviewing with what the clinical financial and strategic value is to that multi headed customer? And if they can't answer it, you're probably going to have a hard time.
Patrick Kothe 15:14
That's a really good way of looking at it, Jim to break that down. And I'll put another layer on top of that, because the decision maker could be different depending on which product it is. So each one of those components as you laid out, the decision maker may have the maximum financial benefit, and there's a little clinical benefit. So so if the decision maker is based on finance, and there's little clinical big financial, okay, it's a great, great deal. But if there's a negative financial, and that's who the decision maker is, and the clinical piece is really, really high. Well, now you got a little mismatch between who the final decision maker is and where your benefits lie. So talk to me a little bit about how you manage that process when the decision maker benefit isn't the largest one of those three?
Jim Surek 16:11
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, you have to look at it then holistically. But what you end up talking about now is value based healthcare. So the conversation so somebody might say, well, the financial value, isn't that great for me, and that, and I've been involved with the situation where it's not for me, but then you start talking about the value based healthcare situation that we're in, and how it's impacting the hospital, well, your decision making sales process are now going to bring in quality people, you're now going to go bringing in like the VPs of lines, the service lines, so you're not going to stick to that one person, you're going to broaden your audience. So that the that that clinical value overrides that individual's financial responsibility or value to them. So that's where you become that enterprise, you know, business person and understanding that. So there is this, what I would say is a top down bottoms up approach to selling these products. And that's how you do it, you just don't, you can't just overcome that objection, right. But look how great it is, clinically, I don't care. So now you have to broaden your conversation and the people that you're talking to and get them involved, which also lengthens the sales process. However, once you get people bought in, they're going to it's going to be sticky. If you try to circumvent that, you're going to be thrown out quicker than you've ever been in the past, because people don't see the value and you and the people that you should have gotten involved weren't involved. And so now you've just really alienated yourself from a lot of people.
Patrick Kothe 17:52
I think one of the things that, that you also have to look at how do you orchestrate the sale, from a timing standpoint, because each one of these stakeholders that are in the in the hospital or in the purchasing decision, they're not always available the same time you're trying to you're trying to bring something forward. And it's got to be coordinated, because you don't want to get somebody so excited about it. And then it languishes for a couple of months, and then you got to try and get them re excited reanimated for it. So there's also the skill of the timing.
Jim Surek 18:26
Yeah, and that is going to be in that's going to be independent about the product you're selling in the specialty that you're selling it into. And, you know, and what type of hospital you're going into, that's more of a question that needs to be asked in the beginning of the product development stages. Who's buying this? Why are they buying it? Right? And what is the value propositions? And I would suggest, we're just talking about commercialization as an initiative, just like market access is initiative, FDA clearance reimbursement, how do I access, commercialization has to be part of that process? Anybody that's bringing a product to market needs to start that process nine to 12 months before an FDA clearance. So you take your messaging that you think, or your your messaging is built off your value props, right. So your value props are built off the features and benefits and then you try to understand that clinical financial and strategic value to those products, you go test it in the market, you either have consultants or VP of sales, marketing people, two or three, sales folks six months before launch, and start testing that out in the marketplace. Go meet with people. And it's really easy to do when you're like I'm not here to sell you anything. I'm here as a consultant with an idea that a product is coming out to market. I would like to understand how you feel about it. This is what you know, the value we see and then you test it. And the reason why you're going to do all that is because you want to remove 70 80% of the obstacles. I mean, remove be prepared for 70 80% of the app. sicles that the person is going to face out in the field, before, they're that guinea pig that goes out and gets their teeth kicked in, because you didn't learn anything about the market, you just thought your product was so beautiful that everybody would buy it. So the question you ask is great, but it's very complicated. But that's where companies fail the most, is that they're not preparing for that commercial multi headed customer. They're preparing to sell it to a doctor. And that's it.
Patrick Kothe 20:30
That's a, that's really a great point. And you really have to touch everyone who's going to touch your product, and it's not only touching your product, it's making decisions on your product, and how they're balancing out that decision. And you talk about, you know, asking, you know, asking people for their for their opinion, you know, in my, in my view, the four most powerful words in a sentence, who would be can you help me? People like to help? And if you go in and say, Hey, I'm not selling anything, can you help me, I really need to understand this. People love to help, they love to give their opinion on things. And that's where you're going to learn. But the thing that the thing that's really important in that, in that setting is you should not be selling there, right, you should be learning, listening, you need to understand what the motivations are you under understand what the process is, and don't talk about, you know, selling your product, you're there, you're there to learn, you're not there to sell.
Jim Surek 21:33
That's exactly it's qualitative research. Right? You're starting that qualitative research to understand the value, we can talk about that that value for that multi headed customer, and how you would articulate that value to there's a lot of times companies, I was I was just talking to a CEO last week, who was looking for some advice. And we were talking about the subject matter and they use, they said, Hey, we thought, you know, saying that this would be a safer way of doing it will indicates that, if the inference is you're not safe today, and so that message didn't resonate. So you know, they they switched it around, changed it, which is understandable. But you really could have found that out earlier in the process, you know, they found it out later in the process. And you'd rather find out things immediately, regardless of what time it is, and then stop doing it. Right?
Patrick Kothe 22:28
Jim? It's a really good point. And by definition, when you walk in with your new product, and you say, Hey, I got something that's better, you're you're saying to the person, you're dumb for using what you're using, because there's something better out there. So it's, it's how you present that makes all the difference from calling somebody an idiot, to helping them to learn about a new technology.
Jim Surek 22:52
Yeah, in that, you know, sales training. Right. So we talk about the differences of what's what's going on to from a sales perspective, that's where I truly believe that as an industry, our training, has fallen off a cliff. And we stick to features and benefits and showing products. So I've been involved with five m&a A's and five different specialties. And I would through the through the value proposition and messaging and sales, training and clinical training, I would say never bring that product out the first call, never bring it out. Just start asking questions. And those questions have to be created at the sales training process. If done right, sales training done, right. You are preparing salespeople to be able to be better prepared to win the day than having some you know, crappy, let's just do a roleplay to articulate all our values, but asking very critical questions about what is being done today. How is that impacting? And I could go through this whole thing like SPIN Selling and the Challenger sale and all that. But it's really just engaging in conversation and understanding how somebody might perceive something and following that conversation, not having nine questions written down. So you ask the first question, you get an answer you go to the second question you get, you can ask one question and never answer as the next nine. And by being able to do that, then you will be able to sell without ever bringing that product out without ever telling somebody they're doing something wrong. But that's a lot. That's a lost art. That's that's happening in the device world.
Patrick Kothe 24:40
You mentioned that it's fallen off a cliff and it's a lost art what happened and what's you know, how do we how do we get this back?
Jim Surek 24:48
Yeah, so I think the biggest reason is the the consolidation of device companies, the contracts that are taking place, small companies trying to get in I was, it was a conversation a couple of weeks ago saying, Yeah, it's really hard for these companies to small companies to break through. Because of the contracts that the big, you know med device companies have, because they're going to lose the rebate, they're going to lose this. So the big device companies, the hardest part about getting the job is getting the job and getting your name on that card. Right. And now I don't really have to train you how to sell just don't lose the business that we have. And when we have a new product, we'll just tell you to tell them it's better. That is where I think it has fallen off a cliff. And then the smaller companies, I don't know that I just don't see that understanding of No, you need to invest in a better way of training. But that goes back to commercialization as an initiative. Sales Training is part of the commercialization process. And so aligning all that through, so your sales, reps leave training, and they are fully armed and prepared. I think it's the consolidation in the industry that has caused this. And then the smaller companies don't think they need it, because they're not even seeing the larger companies do it, we just have to communicate, we have a better product, because it's you know, cheaper, quicker, faster, whatever, we're, that does not win the day.
Patrick Kothe 26:12
And my experience was sales training, there's like two phases of it. Number one, you have to bring people up to speed with the application, the product, the specs, kind of kind of the the product itself and what and how it's how it's used. That's that's one major piece. Because until you have mastered that, you're not able to engage in the sales conversations, you have to understand how your product is used and exactly what it is. But then there's the second phase of that, and that that's where I'm hearing you say that it's falling off a cliff is, once you have that base knowledge, if you take that out, and you regurgitate that that out in the marketplace, you're not going to be able to sell anything, you're going to be able to talk about it. But there's a whole different set of skills that are sales skills. And as you said, you know, there's SPIN Selling and challenger sale and you know, all kinds of things that we've been through over the years different systems to do that. But to me, what it boils down to is can you have a conversation that's not about you, that is about them. And you understand from their standpoint, what they're doing, what they're looking for, how what you're what you have before you even bring it out how what you have can't fit within their world and make their world better. And once you can do that, then you can introduce the concept that's right product and kind of do all those things. But from a sales training standpoint, I think we as an industry do a real good job with the first half of it. But we don't always do a good job with the second half.
Jim Surek 27:51
Yeah, but the second half is more important than the first half, right? Because you can know all the specs and know all the great things about it. But if you can engage with someone about the value to the multigenic customer, then you are just another person trying to sell a product. And, you know, I could go back to, you know, the days of soft inorganic when it was young spine industry, having those conversations, Advanced Bionics, which now is Boston, neuro mod. I mean, we went up against Medtronic, and they owned 85% of the market. And we're this little company out of California, and had this great device. And you could spew out every feature in the world, but it wouldn't matter. You know, and it was I mean, some of the simplest questions were so so Doctor, tell me how conventional technology today is limiting. Your your ability, Zina your fault, it's conventional technology ability to treat patients with focal low back pain. You sit there for an hour, just asking that one question, right. And we talk about it and talk about it and talk about it never have pulled the product out for the hour. And I would say I would get calls back from sales reps going, I can't believe that happened. And then I would say did you pull the product out? No. Because we were we told them listen, I've got something that I think would be incredible value to you and your patients, your practice. Let me come back next week. And really run through how it has value for you. So now you've extended that process. You're coming back more as that consultant. We did the same thing at Intel, us telling me about, you know, those patients with chronic sinusitis that are constantly coming back for antibiotics and steroids, but aren't necessarily surgical candidates. How is that impacting your practice? And how is it impacting those patients and just sit back and listen, and that that to me is just natural to do. But if we don't teach people to do it, and all we do is the first half, then all they're going to spew out is look at my XYZ product. It does a b and c and it's cheaper, quicker, faster, you know And then the, you know, the Ducks are like, I don't have time for this.
Patrick Kothe 30:03
I don't have time for it. And I don't I don't have the patience to take it to the value analysis. It's not it's not as it's not worth it to me to invest my time in order to do it, because you haven't invested them in you. You haven't invested them and how you're going to solve the problem? Yeah, yep, exactly what you're describing with this, with the sales process, it makes it difficult for the beginning sales rep, to understand how to do this. So the beginning sales representative, that you're hiring, you know, out of out of college or two years of copier sales or whatever, that beginning sales rep needs to understand what a hospital is that doctors, you know, MD doesn't stand for medical deity. That they, they know that they can open up a door and a hospital that says private in it, you know, so so. So there's a lot that they need to learn. And then there's the whole medical and product side side of things, then there's a sales skill side of things. And then you have to take it up a level to talk to a lot of different people. So we've got kind of a different sales skills that somebody needs needs to bring to it. So you've you've hired dozens and dozens and dozens of different sales reps. In the past, as you're looking at things today, is it Are you still bringing in that green sales rep, or you're looking for somebody that has a little bit more experience, and experience kind of could kind of go both ways, too. But talk to me a little bit about how you're approaching hiring now, based on the needs that you see, to have a successful salesperson.
Jim Surek 31:50
Yeah, so I'm gonna go back to commercialization as a process because as an initiative, because what you need to do is hire your regional managers first. And then you need to deploy them into the field. When they're in the field, and they're learning and you're creating a learning organization, you're taking that information back, and then you're understanding more completely how the sales process is going to go. If you're selling robotics that is completely different than if you're selling, you know, an interventional pain product. Right? So but you still need to go out into that field and understand way before you start hiring a person, what that process is going to look like, I don't have a problem hiring somebody with b2b sales experience. But it depends, I wouldn't hire a b2b copier sale to go sell a robotics product today. Right, I'm probably going to pick somebody in capital sales. Because it's become so complicated, and it isn't enterprise sale, that you would have to look for that person. But that doesn't mean a year or two from now you can start bringing in inexperienced people and train them the way you want to train them. And so, at Advanced Bionics, we hired b2b copier sales people, Pitney Bowes, FedEx, I mean, we hired those people that had great sales training, we trained them on the clinical stuff, we had cadaver labs, we had Mako, our rooms where it was fighter pilot training, where the engineers were behind the scenes, you know, mucking up the system, and the rep would have to overcome it, to get through the case, and then we trained them on the sales side of it. And through that, you're training them on how to get into a hospital and into an ASC. I would still do that. But it would, it would depend on the product. But for sure, I'm hiring those regional managers first, two or three, myself included, if I was the VP of sales, and I'd go out into the market, I start making calls and seeing what's happening. And then you can determine what kind of person that you need. At Intel plus, I didn't go with the, you know, b2b salespeople, but I only went with people with about three years worth of med techs experience, I didn't want to send your person because we're going to call in the office. So I needed somebody who, who knew a little bit more about the way around the office. But I didn't need 10 years of experience to do that. So it's it's circumstantial on how you would approach it. But I'm gonna go back, you know, third time, hire those original people go out in the field, get your teeth kicked in, learn so that when you do hire the people, you're hiring the right people, and you're going to train them the right way, so that you're setting them up for success.
Patrick Kothe 34:34
Jim, we're talking a lot about a new company. So a new company that's got a new product, but there's there's also situations where you've got an existing company and you've gotten a new product is the market you were talking about understanding things before it hits the marketplace before you get your FDA clearance or FDA approval? Is the process the same for or an existing company with a new product as it is with a new company with a new product? Yeah.
Jim Surek 35:05
So I mean, that's a great question. I would say absolutely. Right. I would say absolutely. If you are an upstream marketing person, and you've got some ideas, and you're in product development, and you think this is the greatest thing in the world, you should still step back and go talk to as many people as possible about this product, and what the true value is, is it incremental? Is it just a little bit better? Well, maybe you shouldn't be designing it anyways, you know, and so, but if it's that new product, I would say, go out into the market, get, you know, some people to do what that regional manager would do or get a couple people within the regional manager group, let's call it or district manager group, assign them a project, because people want to advance their careers, they want to get involved, sign them to say, I want you to go do this, you know, market research for me, and you got to put on a different hat. But I do believe big companies should do it, because big companies have products that fail.
Patrick Kothe 36:07
And a lot of the times, it's because they're too arrogant to go out and ask the questions. Again, they say I understand my market, I understand my customer. But in my experience, every product is different. It's a different, a different puzzle that you're gonna have to put together to solve. It's a different time when you're injured introducing it, they're different players, there's different different things going on in the marketplace, different competitors that are out there. So every product is a little bit different. And big companies, I think big companies do a poor job of understanding than smaller companies, in many respects. Yeah.
Jim Surek 36:38
Well, I mean, Neil Rackham, who wrote SPIN Selling, he said, he's got an article out there, everybody should look it up, why great products fail. Right. And it's about all the stuff that we're talking about. And it's not little companies, it's little companies, big companies, whatever you want to look at. But it's the it's the inherent nature of large strategic device companies to believe they know better. And we need to introduce a little more humility into that process, right? Because when we talk, when I talk about healing our healthcare system, I'm very passionate. And I get very upset when great products fail, because it's supposed to heal our healthcare system, right. So if we're not approaching it, and a more, with more humility, to understand, to learn to be able to provide that value, we're doing ourselves a disservice.
Patrick Kothe 37:36
I really enjoyed this one. Jim is just a professional, when it comes to sales, is understand why he's doing things. And he's broken things down into very concrete ways of how to go through the sales process, whether you're in a startup, or whether you're in an existing company. So some great things that come out of this. And I strongly encourage you to listen to the second part of our conversation as he just continues to deliver great, great insights into sales. So a few of my takeaways today. First of all, he talked about the funnel strategy to developing a value based proposition and he talked about a third, a third, a third being clinical value to the patient, Doctor practice Hospital, a health care system, financial value to those savings group, same groups, and then their strategic value. And as you're going through and developing these messages that you that you're delivering to your customer, really understanding these string, three things becomes critical to the sales process and how you're going to train your salespeople to introduce your product to customer. The second thing was commercialization as an initiative. And it's really kind of outgrowth of the first one, first, we have to understand it, and then it is using that as an as an initiative. And this isn't something that you you bring out, you know, right, you know, two weeks before you're going to start selling the process or the product. This has to be developed over a time period, he talks about nine to 12 months before product rollout to really get people involved and really dig into this and make sure that your messaging is right on target when you hit the market. And the last thing that that I wanted to call out was holding back on discussing your product, I thought that this was a really good insight. When you get in and have those first conversations with your physicians, it's asking about their experiences, their problems and their practice, and really understanding their viewpoints. And that's the discussion. And then he said, you know, come back next week. Let me come back next week to discuss how our product can bring you some value. So it's holding back and really allowing yourself to be embedded within your customers world. Before you start to talk about you, thank you for listening. Make sure you get episodes downloaded to your device automatically by liking or subscribing to the mastering medical device podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please spread the word and tell a friend or tune to listen to the mastering medical device podcast as interviews like today's can help you become a more effective medical device leader. Work hard. Be kind
